liberal pacifism?

[billc]

From "Liberal Facism" by Jonah Goldberg:

Even after Hitler had siezed power and became more receptive to pleas from businessmen-the demands of his war machine required no less-party propaganda still aimed relentlessly at workers. Hitler always emphasized (and grossly exaggerated) his status as an " ex-worker." He would regularly appear in shirtsleeves and spoke informally to blue-collar Germans: "I was a worker in my youth like you, slowly working my way upward by industry, by study, and I think I can say as well by hunger."

The nazis were brilliant at arguing for a one-nation politics in which a farmer and a businessman were all valued equally. At nazi rallies, organizers never allowed an aristocrat to speak unless he was paired with a humble farmer from the sticks"

What distinguished Nazism from other brands of socialism and communism was not so much that it included more aspects from the political right(though there were some). What distinguished nazism was that it forthrightly included a worldview we now associate almost completely with the political left: identity politics. this was what distinguished Nazism from doctrinaire communism, and it seems hard to argue that the marriage of one leftist vision to another can somehow produce right-wing progeny.

 

[billc]

From Thomas Sowell though, Du Bois wasn't putting them on his magazine because they represented the Hindu religion but because they represented National Socialsim.

 

[billc]

Actually Rayban, they had everything in common with socialism. The state controlled the means of production, just like the communists. The degree and how hands on the control was differed but the state was in control. In the book "Property and Freedom," I don't recall the authors name, the author points out that in Hitlers germany, you might own your business, but at any time the state could take direct control of it. That isn't capitalism. The socialists in Germany and Italy also controlled the lives of their people completely, just like in the socialism of russia.

 

[billc]

Rayban, you might not have heard my analogy to ice cream. Chocolate, Vanilla and strawberry are different flavors but they are all ice cream. The same with facism, nazism, and communism.

I need some deeper differences than you have given me to show that they aren't socialists.

 

[granfire]

Rayban, you might not have heard my analogy to ice cream. Chocolate, Vanilla and strawberry are different flavors but they are all ice cream. The same with facism, nazism, and communism.

I need some deeper differences than you have given me to show that they aren't socialists.

Yes, we heard it before. and it still does not make a fascist a socialist or a communist.
I mean, how much deeper do you want to get, really?!

 

[Tez3]

Yes, we heard it before. and it still does not make a fascist a socialist or a communist.
I mean, how much deeper do you want to get, really?!

I think really he's got he's own ideas and will drag anything he can into proving he's right. If he choses to disagree with what the rest of the world agrees is a broad description of how we see things there's little point in continuing the discussion to be honest. We can't even get into discussing the finer issues of what politics is if he's not going to agree with the accepted descriptions of whats right and left, if we can't get beyond Hitler and the fascists were socialist and on the left argument there's no point in us posting anything at all.

I think actually he doesn't want to face the possiblity that as a right winger he has anything in common with these others on the right wing. Can't say I blame him for that, I wouldn't want the same politics as Hitler either but to argue Hitler and Mussolini were left wing is farcical and a discussion killer.

Bill, I will leave you to your fantasy, enjoy.


Oh and by the way 'ice cream' is a misnomer there is very often no cream in it.

 

[Blade96]

Actually Rayban, they had everything in common with socialism. The state controlled the means of production, just like the communists. The degree and how hands on the control was differed but the state was in control. In the book "Property and Freedom," I don't recall the authors name, the author points out that in Hitlers germany, you might own your business, but at any time the state could take direct control of it. That isn't capitalism. The socialists in Germany and Italy also controlled the lives of their people completely, just like in the socialism of russia.

Hence why I said "no matter how much nazi germany and the ussr came to resemble each other in many ways....."

 

[Tez3]

It's like MMA. In that we have two umbrella labels ...stand up and ground work, the two are very different, one can't be the other. Within those labels we have others, stand up can be boxing, karate, Muay Thai, TKD etc etc and in the ground work it can be Judo, wrestling, BJJ, JJ etc. We have to understand what we are talking about otherwise we will never get any where. Judo can't be karate and vice versa yet it's all 'fighting'. We also have things like Aikido in the mix so the edges are blurred but people know what we are talking about when we use the general labels.

Think of standup as left wing and ground work as right then you will see what I mean,, though I'm not holding my breath here.