Let's Not Forget - My PERSONAL Views On The Study.

[Jonathan Randall]

Given that right now there are a number of heated debates going on here in the Study, some where members are treating each other, IMO, in an unfriendly manner, let's not forget that only a few short months ago there was talk of and serious consideration given to closing the Study. Any thoughts on how we can return the discourse here to a more friendly and tolerant (of disagreements) level?

* Disclaimer *
I am speaking here as a concerned member of Martial Talk and not officially as a Moderator.

 

[mantis]

Given that right now there are a number of heated debates going on here in the Study, some where members are treating each other, IMO, in an unfriendly manner, let's not forget that only a few short months ago there was talk of and serious consideration given to closing the Study. Any thoughts on how we can return the discourse here to a more friendly and tolerant (of disagreements) level?

* Disclaimer *
I am speaking here as a concerned member of Martial Talk and not officially as a Moderator.

I just hope people who talk in the study discuss things with open mindedness and objectivity.

There are a couple of problems that I noticed: (me included in most, if not all)
1. There are people who have no idea what they're talking about, yet they sound very confident what they're saying is correct and they accept no challenge to their opinions.

2. People are a bit inconsiderate. When they are talking about something they do not realize they may be offending others. We have to realize that people are capable of offending us as easy as we offend them.

3. People do not take arguments open-mindedly. They were born with an idea in their heads and theyre not willing to listen to anything that negates it, and sometimes that agrees with it but from another angle.

4. People are not willing to come to a conclusion. They would argue about the same point forever. If you realize people are not going to change their minds, and you are not willing to do so either please end the discussion about that particular point. Move on to another.

5. So many ideas get presented. We need to break huge discussions into stages or phases where we say "so far we agreed to point1, 2, 3..." and so on and move on to other ideas or sides of the debates.

Remember that martial arts have always been associated with a great deal of respect and integrity, and so far MT has been a good place to demonstrate that and I hope it continues having it's friendly and respectful atmosphere.

I would like the study to continue, it is definintely educating. at least you are educated about how much ignorance there is out there (jk)

/salute

 

[Kacey]

Mantis - very nicely stated. I agree.

I would also like to add that I have posted on several other fora, martial arts themed and otherwise - and even when escalating, MT if by far the most civil forum I have spent any length of time on... and I would hate to see that change, because it is one of the aspects I most enjoy.

Edited to add second paragraph.

 

[Raewyn]

I would like the study to stay open. Yeah sure things can get heated, but alot of people are obviously very passionate about what they believe. I guess we just have to make people aware that they are not the only passionate ones out there and to learn to be more tolerant and open minded about other peoples opinions.

 

[MartialIntent]

Given that right now there are a number of heated debates going on here in the Study, some where members are treating each other, IMO, in an unfriendly manner, let's not forget that only a few short months ago there was talk of and serious consideration given to closing the Study. Any thoughts on how we can return the discourse here to a more friendly and tolerant (of disagreements) level?

* Disclaimer *
I am speaking here as a concerned member of Martial Talk and not officially as a Moderator.

Jonathan I certainly appreciate that sentiment and it got me thinking that this is perhaps a more complicated issue than it might look at first glance. OK let me first say that by far the majority of folk on here are - I have found - open, honest and without ulterior motivation, the discussion is stimulating and I learn a lot. But...

There are the deliberately antagonistic posters who post as challenge. It's the forum equivalent of "Step outside and we'll see..." No place for it in our MA any more than there is on this forum. However, there are plenty of us who see this for what it is but charge the red rag anyway in much the same way as we would step up if someone got in our face physically. So that's a two pronged sword I think.

There are also the posters who exist on here for no other reason than to forward their case for king. They seek glorification and as the old PR adage goes, there's no such thing as bad publicity... Again our replies to these posts offer only more ego flattering. Again, I think sometimes we [the "decent" majority] just can't help ourselves in jumping those trains which to be facetious I think are destined as short journies

And finally there are the worst offenders in my opinion. These are the members who post in an obviously aggressive way [bullying possibly]. I can't stand this abusive immaturity - and it IS abusive even though it might be veiled as "genuine argument".

So, that's a lot of preamble. Your question is how to endow the study with greater tolerance well, I think the best way to do this [and don't ask me how!] is to encourage much greater participation in the study across the MT populus. Because the greater the number of decent, civil members posting there, the greater the opportunity for self-regulation. I mean, we all love a spectacle but nobody wants mods having to come in and showing the unsociables the door. Self-regulation is best and most expedient.

I wouldn't think closing it down would satisfy the remit of Bob's forum which though I'm not familiar with I'd be guessing a part of it was to increase membership and while there are current and topical threads from the study out there in Google-land people will come in here to read them and maybe join and maybe support.

Apologies for being so verbose but funny what amazes me is... well, how much I care, huh. Oh well I am tired I have to say of the relentless negativity of some folk sometimes and not just here, it's everywhere. It's encouraging to come on here and see some of the upbeat posts and members coming on and I laud the efforts of the many members recently who are obviously trying to bring accord. Just because we're all fighters doesn't mean we gotta fight ourselves. There are common goals.

Respects!

 

[Henderson]

Given that right now there are a number of heated debates going on here in the Study, some where members are treating each other, IMO, in an unfriendly manner, let's not forget that only a few short months ago there was talk of and serious consideration given to closing the Study. Any thoughts on how we can return the discourse here to a more friendly and tolerant (of disagreements) level?

* Disclaimer *
I am speaking here as a concerned member of Martial Talk and not officially as a Moderator.

Hi Jonathan,
Good point to bring up here. And, I think you've received some good replies. Mantis hit quite a few of the problems...

There are a couple of problems that I noticed: (me included in most, if not all)
1. There are people who have no idea what they're talking about, yet they sound very confident what they're saying is correct and they accept no challenge to their opinions.

2. People are a bit inconsiderate. When they are talking about something they do not realize they may be offending others. We have to realize that people are capable of offending us as easy as we offend them.

3. People do not take arguments open-mindedly. They were born with an idea in their heads and theyre not willing to listen to anything that negates it, and sometimes that agrees with it but from another angle.

4. People are not willing to come to a conclusion. They would argue about the same point forever. If you realize people are not going to change their minds, and you are not willing to do so either please end the discussion about that particular point. Move on to another.

5. So many ideas get presented. We need to break huge discussions into stages or phases where we say "so far we agreed to point 1, 2, 3..." and so on and move on to other ideas or sides of the debates.

Remember that martial arts have always been associated with a great deal of respect and integrity, and so far MT has been a good place to demonstrate that and I hope it continues having it's friendly and respectful atmosphere.

I would like the study to continue, it is definintely educating. at least you are educated about how much ignorance there is out there.

Please allow me to offer the "sugar-free" version...

1. Some people are full of crap, and just too ignorgant to realize that they do not know everything.
2. People are down right rude inconsiderate asses!
3. Some people are just too damned stubborn for adult discussion in a venue such as this.
4. My children do this too. It's called "I gotta have the last word". To those offenders...Grow up.
5. This one is our fault. A recent culprit is the Bible Truth post. It's a little broad...don't ya think?

I hope I have not offended anyone in just getting straight to the point. I believe The Study to be a good place for discussion about a very wide number of topics. Let's not allow a few "Richards" to ruin it for the rest of us.

Respects,

Frank

 

[shesulsa]

5. This one is our fault. A recent culprit is the Bible Truth post. It's a little broad...don't ya think?

This thread is not in the Study - it is in the Philosophy and Spirituality section, where discussions on those topics belong.

 

[terryl965]

The study is a place no matter what topic or decussion or arrgoment, no one is going to agree. As far as getting the last word, it is like a fight the last punch wins theroy kinda stupid to me. Views are different from all over the world but the one common thing we are suppose to have in common is Martial Arts and with that is suppose to be a respect factor and intigity aspect that we forget about when we walk into the study for conversation.

The answer leave don't look back close the door and lock it, the problem we all have keys to re-open the door!
Terry

 

[Henderson]

This thread is not in the Study - it is in the Philosophy and Spirituality section, where discussions on those topics belong.

Sorry, G! My fault. I just thought it was a good example of a very broad topic. :asian:

 

[shesulsa]

Sorry, G! My fault. I just thought it was a good example of a very broad topic. :asian:

Yes it is. I started that thread with a purpose and it is the first in a series to whittle down to core ideas. I beg your patience.

 

[Henderson]

Yes it is. I started that thread with a purpose and it is the first in a series to whittle down to core ideas. I beg your patience.

Point taken...patience granted.

 

[Bigshadow]

There are the deliberately antagonistic posters who post as challenge. It's the forum equivalent of "Step outside and we'll see..." No place for it in our MA any more than there is on this forum. However, there are plenty of us who see this for what it is but charge the red rag anyway in much the same way as we would step up if someone got in our face physically.

Fantastic point! I believe people's actions/interactions on here are a virtual (pun intended) reflection of the way they approach life in general, myself included.

 

[Henderson]

There are the deliberately antagonistic posters who post as challenge. It's the forum equivalent of "Step outside and we'll see..." No place for it in our MA any more than there is on this forum. However, there are plenty of us who see this for what it is but charge the red rag anyway in much the same way as we would step up if someone got in our face physically.

I too agree with this wholeheartedly.

Fantastic point! I believe people's actions/interactions on here are a virtual (pun intended) reflection of the way they approach life in general, myself included.

Bigshadow makes a very fine observation as well. From the way certain people conduct themselves on this forum, I would be proud to meet and call them my "friend". Others......not so much (trying to be nice).

 

[Rich Parsons]

Given that right now there are a number of heated debates going on here in the Study, some where members are treating each other, IMO, in an unfriendly manner, let's not forget that only a few short months ago there was talk of and serious consideration given to closing the Study. Any thoughts on how we can return the discourse here to a more friendly and tolerant (of disagreements) level?

* Disclaimer *
I am speaking here as a concerned member of Martial Talk and not officially as a Moderator.

Hi Mr Obvious, as a long time member and first time poster here, I would like to say:

Our site has people who have been around for a long time. We also have peopel who are new and have not built up their shields over time like many of us have.

I think positive discussion is good.

I think arguements are good. (* Look it up: it does not mean calling people names and gtting personal it means presenting your side of a point of issue. *)

To have a good arguement one has to allow both sides to be presented.



The issues that are hot and always will be are politics, religion and for us Martial Arts.

Walk away for an hour and think about your post, give some thought to what you post and also see if what you want to post is the same a little bit later. Breath in and Breath out, relax and see what others have to think and say. And just because they disagree with you, does not mean they are evil or wrong and have to be changed.

Approach the discussion / arguement with a logical point of view of expressing ones point of view of information, opinion or even facts. Reference material is always good.

 

[Rick Wade]

Given that right now there are a number of heated debates going on here in the Study, some where members are treating each other, IMO, in an unfriendly manner, let's not forget that only a few short months ago there was talk of and serious consideration given to closing the Study. Any thoughts on how we can return the discourse here to a more friendly and tolerant (of disagreements) level?

* Disclaimer *
I am speaking here as a concerned member of Martial Talk and not officially as a Moderator.

I thought that is what the "Great Debate" section was for was to let the gloves come off so to speak that away anyone who didn't want to read that crap wouldn't go to that section.

I know that I pay attention to diffrent sections that I go into.

 

[DngrRuss]

I love debate, discussion, and even argument in all its guises. If it turms into some tit-for-tat attack on each other with no substance, then it bores me and I walk away.

Personally, there is nothing anyone here can do to offend me (though I find some of the opinions and closed mindedness distasteful) so much that I would stamp my feet and cry foul. Bring it on- I can take it. But I have always said that if you want to bring it, be prepared to take it in kind. There are some here (and let's face it- everywhere) that are so engrossed in their opinion and position that they get their feelings hurt or angry if you challenge them, no matter how aggressive they may have put out their ideas. It is almost as if they can't stand or aren't confident enough to take opposition.

Just my opinion :whip:

 

[michaeledward]

This thread is not in the Study - it is in the Philosophy and Spirituality section, where discussions on those topics belong.

Speaking for myself, I use the 'New Post' view and post on those topics where the title interests me. I don't usually notice in which subforum the thread is located.

I was roundly scolded for having a thought on a topic, outside of the study. Oh, well.