Less-than-Lethal options for civilians

[Dave Leverich]

I'm thinking if someone wants a less lethal approach, learn joint locks and pressure points.

I do have a rattan kubaton that I made one day because I liked the thought of it. It's lighter than aluminum, and often a 'hey whats that'.. 'I practice stick fighting and made a keychain, you like it?' type conversation starter heh. It does help with some joint locks if needed, and can hit pressure points very hard, but mainly I just like it because it reminds me of my secondary art.

 

[thardey]

Again -- I fall back on the defintion of civilian self defense: dealing with imminent or present attack in such a way that you can escape. If you need a weapon, you almost certainly should be justified in lethal force. If you don't or can't carry a gun -- sticks are my next choice. ...

There's also a vital terminology difference that's not being picked up on. THERE ARE NO LESS-THAN-LETHAL WEAPONS. There's a reason that phrase is no longer in favor in law enforcement training; the current term of art is "less lethal." Any weapon can do lethal harm (serious bodily harm or injury, up to and including death). Some are less likely to do so than others, especially used correctly.

So it sounds like my original thoughts were right:

It seems that our options are either empty-hand defense, or lethal weapons. Is there anything in-between, or is that specifically discouraged by law? (In the same vein as the legal aspects against shooting-to-wound) In Oregon, force is divided into "physical force" and "lethal force", with pretty much any weapon use defined as "lethal force".

(From the OP)

I can use a gun in a less-lethal (I do like that term much better) way (as a club) but it's still a lethal weapon. Sticks are good (I think they're a stronger weapon than most knives, myself), but I have a solid brass head on my old cane, it's certainly lethal, even though I can carry it on an airplane . . .

So in other words, "no". There are weapons that have various degrees of lethality, and various degrees of freedom to carry, but I'm still using a lethal weapon against another human being, whether it be a comb, a pen, a rolled up magazine, an oversized key, a stick, or a gun.

I may as well just carry my gun, and my folding knife, and keep my empty hand skills practical.

 

[jks9199]

So it sounds like my original thoughts were right:
(From the OP)

I can use a gun in a less-lethal (I do like that term much better) way (as a club) but it's still a lethal weapon. Sticks are good (I think they're a stronger weapon than most knives, myself), but I have a solid brass head on my old cane, it's certainly lethal, even though I can carry it on an airplane . . .

So in other words, "no". There are weapons that have various degrees of lethality, and various degrees of freedom to carry, but I'm still using a lethal weapon against another human being, whether it be a comb, a pen, a rolled up magazine, an oversized key, a stick, or a gun.

I may as well just carry my gun, and my folding knife, and keep my empty hand skills practical.

Again... It comes down to your purpose.

I'm a cop; my job and my duty is to use the minimum necessary force to protect myself and to effect an arrest. I'm held to a certain standard because I'm a professional. I can even initiate the use of force in many situations where a civilian would be charged with assault.

As a civilian, your goal in defending yourself is not (and emphatically should not be!) to arrest someone; it's to protect yourself. Less lethal options are fine -- but few are practical for civilian carry. OC isn't bad; it's just not a cure all. And, if a civilian is under attack in such a way that they feel the need for a weapon -- they probably need to go all the way. You don't want to bring charges against Joe Dirtbag; you want him to STOP attacking you and leave you alone so that you can go somewhere safe.

That difference in purposes leads to the difference in weapons. But the rule in law enforcement is that if you're deploying less lethal -- you have lethal backup planned and available. Often, that means that the guy covering the officer with the Taser's back has a gun out. Or if baton strikes are ineffective -- you're planning to transition to a gun.