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GouRonin
Guest
Originally posted by Kenpo Wolf
ROFLMAOGouRonin has my vote for the the funniest poster on this board.
I accept your vote. In fact what you need to do is set it up as a poll here on martial talk in it's own post.
Nah, I keep it in it's own spot in the garage. It won't fit through the door of my house.
:shrug:
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clapping_tiger
Guest
Originally posted by Kenpo Wolf
The way I heard it is when our military guys were stationed over in Okinawa(Spl) after WW2, a lot of them harassed the natives. The powers that be in the military ranks didnÂ’t want to lose their base there so soon after the war and had their men register with the Okinawan government as military. That way, the Okinawans knew the difference between military police, who were trained in basic judo and karate, and the general military. Since then, it has snowballed into a fallacy where all black belts has to register themselves as deadly weapon
I can't recall the facts on this since I read it about seven or eight years ago.
First Off, I agree with everyone, the story she told was a flat out lie. At least most of it.
Here is an article I have from the "The ultimate Martial Arts Questions and Answers" book regarding the story that Kenpo Wolf stated.
-"This myth seems to have circulated widely among the uninformed. But here's how this one started and to what end it has evolved.
This misconception started in the 1960's with U.S. Marines stationed in Okinawa who trained in Karate. According to retired world heavyweight karate champion Joe Lewis, a former U.S. Marine who trained there, marines training in karate in Okinawa were required by the Marine Corps to register as karate students.
This rule was due to the many fights that broke out involving off-duty marines on the island. The military police could than be informed whether any rowdies were trained in karate and thus might be more difficult to deal with on a physical level.
The myth further evolved with some unknown black belt warning his opponent,” my hands are licensed weapons," in an effort to scare him away.
There is no known law, as of the writing, that requires black belts to register their hands with any state or federal law enforcement agencies. Be aware, however, that most state laws cite that you can only defend yourself with force equal to the attack. So if a bully was just calling you names and you cripple him for life, you could be held responsible. Use common sense in all self defense situations."- The Ultimate Martial Arts Q&A Book.
Here in Wisconsin we are allowed to reasonably defend ourselves, with a reasonable about of force, to stop what we reasonably perceive to be a threat to ourselves or a third party. That is just about word for word from our state statute.
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GouRonin
Guest
I have that book. Some good stuff in it.
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Aaron
Guest
I've been a cop in Washington state for over 10 years, Mr. Billings post is right on the money. Although the states of Washington and Texas are about as far apart on the liberal scale as two states can be, they are almost identical when is comes to "use of force" by a citizen.
There has never been any law that requires a martial artist to register themselves on either the state or federal level. From reading the posts it looks as though you all already know this.
Mr. Billings explanation of the "reasonable person" standard is also correct (and well written I might add). We use the phrase "no reasonably effective alternative to the use of force appeared to exist...." meaning at the time you saw no other way to deal with the situation.
This could include a pre-emptive strike, if you felt and can explain that at the time you saw no other alternative. Your actions, however, must be reasonable, stomping the throat of your unconscience attacker would not be seen as "reasonable".
Of the fight calls I have responded to in my career about 90 percent of them are between two morons with inferiority complexes! The other 10 percent were the good citizen popping some dirtbag in the mouth. These always end with the citizen getting a pat on the back and the dirtbag spending the night courtesy of the city on "provoking and assault" charge. Most assault calls involving a good citizen (ie. martial artist) and a drunk are handled in the field by the responding officer, meaning you probably won't end up having to explain yourself to a jury.
My most humble advice to any martial artist would be not to "what if" an imaginary situation to death. If you study martial arts and your asking yourself these questions then you have already prepared for an encounter. All you need to do is trust in yourself to react reasonably.
There has never been any law that requires a martial artist to register themselves on either the state or federal level. From reading the posts it looks as though you all already know this.
Mr. Billings explanation of the "reasonable person" standard is also correct (and well written I might add). We use the phrase "no reasonably effective alternative to the use of force appeared to exist...." meaning at the time you saw no other way to deal with the situation.
This could include a pre-emptive strike, if you felt and can explain that at the time you saw no other alternative. Your actions, however, must be reasonable, stomping the throat of your unconscience attacker would not be seen as "reasonable".
Of the fight calls I have responded to in my career about 90 percent of them are between two morons with inferiority complexes! The other 10 percent were the good citizen popping some dirtbag in the mouth. These always end with the citizen getting a pat on the back and the dirtbag spending the night courtesy of the city on "provoking and assault" charge. Most assault calls involving a good citizen (ie. martial artist) and a drunk are handled in the field by the responding officer, meaning you probably won't end up having to explain yourself to a jury.
My most humble advice to any martial artist would be not to "what if" an imaginary situation to death. If you study martial arts and your asking yourself these questions then you have already prepared for an encounter. All you need to do is trust in yourself to react reasonably.
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RyuShiKan
Guest
I heard this sort of story several years ago as well and it sounds like bull.
It might be different from state to state in the US.............although I doubt there is a need to register.
However, being taken to court for using excessive force and being a "trained" martial artist would not look to good to a judge and jury I would imagine.
It might be different from state to state in the US.............although I doubt there is a need to register.
However, being taken to court for using excessive force and being a "trained" martial artist would not look to good to a judge and jury I would imagine.
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sammy3170
Guest
Cheers Cobby you too mate
what a killer grading.
Cheers
Sammy
cdhall
Master Black Belt
This is sort of a bump, with corrections.
But I want to add that I have been threatened on my own property and I hesitated to destroy the guy harassing me because he was bigger and presumably stronger than me and I was going to maim him and break stuff if it came to blows. I did not want to grapple or spend any time taking his shots. It was going to be ugly.
But apparently, like in the classic examples, he was afraid of me because I did not back down from him. I knew I would be in the clear if he attacked in any way, so I was waiting for him to move. He left.
My son was VERY disappointed but I told him this was a priceless application of Kenpo/Martial Arts and he needs to get a clue.
I didn't get a scratch on me and I haven't heard from this guy again.
I called my Attorney and he told me the law and I even went online and printed it for reference. Invaluable.
Next time I see this guy I know how I'm able to respond. Against any guy for that matter. Anywhere in Texas. So if you have questions about this stuff, contact me. I recommend my services highly of course and I have refernces. For $17.00/mo I can get my attorney on the phone at 3am if I'm arrested or detained by law enforcement or security personnel in addition to being able to call during business hours about stuff like this.
cdhall
Master Black Belt
Nah, " It's better to injure 10, than to kill one." That way you can send them back to warn their friends not to %$#@ with you. Then if they bring their friends back, you can %$#@ them up too!
That is so funny! I've said that before. Too many Kung-Fu movies I guess... I think now I tend to think the other way. I don't want to mess with 10 guys twice (or once for that matter).
cdhall
Master Black Belt
WOW. I just updated a post of mine on this thread and I SOOO wanted to say that Mr. Billings is a client but I never do that without advance permission.
Mr. Billings gets a free lunch at his convenience, let me know when and where, sir.
But the law has changed since this post was written and my recent update was based on a recent event that involved changes to this law.
Mr. Billings is right on to my limited and humble knowledge. Also, my services are good in Every State in the US plus parts of Canada (Alberta, British Columbia, Manitoba and Ontario).
Contact me for more info about what it can do for you personally and about how my business plan can help your business/studio/day job.
P.S. I'd like business partners in those 4 provinces if anyone is interested in an additional income stream.
Bill_Hunsicker
White Belt
Isnt amazing how many times the word reasonable is used to describe your state of mind in a fight situation? Truthfully, if my family is being threatened, I dont thing "reasonable" is even anywhere near the top 1000 words I am considering as I beat the jerk to a pulp.
Also, living in texas and teaching here, I have to agree with Mr. Billings. No law requires us to register, and the ladys story was more than likely self justification for geting her **** stomped.
yorkshirelad
Master Black Belt
So this woman stood there while her boyfriend kicked the crap out of her, and she didn't respond for fear of liability. Anyone in their right mind will tell you that this story is BS.
When I was training in Dublin, my teacher told me a story of a woman that had come to sign up at the studio a couple of months before I arrived. He said that she was adamant that she had to register her hand with the local Garda (police) station. For a bit of fun, one of the black belts asked her to place her right hand on a piece of paper. She did so and he drew a line around her hand and told her that, if she wanted she could take this paper to the police and they would put it on file. A few days later she came back to the studio with a photocopy of the hand drawing that had been rubber stamped by the police and they told her to take it back to her instructor for him to put it in his files. It's good to know that the coppers have a sense of humour about this sort of thing too.
When I was training in Dublin, my teacher told me a story of a woman that had come to sign up at the studio a couple of months before I arrived. He said that she was adamant that she had to register her hand with the local Garda (police) station. For a bit of fun, one of the black belts asked her to place her right hand on a piece of paper. She did so and he drew a line around her hand and told her that, if she wanted she could take this paper to the police and they would put it on file. A few days later she came back to the studio with a photocopy of the hand drawing that had been rubber stamped by the police and they told her to take it back to her instructor for him to put it in his files. It's good to know that the coppers have a sense of humour about this sort of thing too.
Kenpo17
Green Belt
I believe that she was messing around with you. You do not have to get registered with your state after testing for any degree. If her boyfriend was throwing her around and beating her up like she had told you, she would defend herself appropriately, I garentee you that. There would also at that point be no reason for a lawsuit against her because she was defending herself and not the one attacking. I mean sometimes you could be affraid of a lawsuit if you are to use your knowledge of Kenpo the wrong way, but in her case at least, she could go after him in a lawsuit. Overall, I do not understand where she was coming from with telling you this, or what she was trying to point out.
