Leg Locks and self defense

[SenseiHitman]

I love leg locks and ankle locks as part of my counters to high kicks and the bear hug from behind, in both cases the lock is practically being given to you. In the bear hug I prefer the rolling Japanese knee bar not the drop to the side knee bar shown above but anyway yes I like leg locks when the attacker offers them. I also like the leg split after a take down and also I like the leg figure four crock screw after the take down since you already have the legs in control. In some cases, the double leg grapevine can be a handy weapon when being picked up from behind or mounted. I dont think leg locks are a good weapon for beginners, but I take them every where I go just in case I might need them.

 

[Buka]

True - but the possible self-defense situations where a leg lock is your best option are relatively unlikely.

I agree. But I think that applies to roughly about half of what is taught in every martial arts school on the planet.

P.S. I love leg locks, but I really, really suck at them.

 

[Charlemagne]

I agree. But I think that applies to roughly about half of what is taught in every martial arts school on the planet.

Agreed to a point. I would suggest that it varies greatly from one system, and the interpretation of it, to another.

P.S. I love leg locks, but I really, really suck at them.

Same here.

 

[drop bear]

I agree. But I think that applies to roughly about half of what is taught in every martial arts school on the planet.

P.S. I love leg locks, but I really, really suck at them.

Goober rolling into a leg lock on a guy standing has some merit.

As you can hit it from scrambling when they beat you to a stand up and you need something to stop him beating you up as you lay there on the ground.

Standing like the video. Again ambitious.

 

[Brian R. VanCise]

Like Tony, I like leg locks and practice them regularly. However, if I was in that position in a self-defense situation I would probably sweep them instead. If it is a one on one encounter where grappling is feasible for self-defense then I want dominant position first and foremost. Yet, having said that doesn't mean I might not heel hook someone. (there are no absolutes) I probably would not knee bar someone or put myself in any position where my back was turned to my opponent. That would be a great place for him/her to deploy a knife and I wouldn't see it until it was in my kidney, spine, etc.

 

[Charlemagne]

Like Tony, I like leg locks and practice them regularly. However, if I was in that position in a self-defense situation I would probably sweep them instead. If it is a one on one encounter where grappling is feasible for self-defense then I want dominant position first and foremost. Yet, having said that doesn't mean I might not heel hook someone. (there are no absolutes) I probably would not knee bar someone or put myself in any position where my back was turned to my opponent. That would be a great place for him/her to deploy a knife and I wouldn't see it until it was in my kidney, spine, etc.

Agreed with all of that. I would also add that this is one place where the "too deadly for the ring" comments that people who try to avoid training grappling have a point. As you noted, there is exposure to a potential weapon, but I would add that you are also exposing yourself to kicks, sometimes in some pretty delicate places. Sometimes you have to take what you can get, but I do like the idea of a sweep to get a positional advantage, or allow me to get to a weapon if needed, rather than going for a submission that might expose me to other forms of attack.

 

[Tony Dismukes]

As you noted, there is exposure to a potential weapon, but I would add that you are also exposing yourself to kicks, sometimes in some pretty delicate places.

Depends on the control position you are using for the leg lock. Most of my preferred entries and control positions do not allow the opponent to kick you at all.

The knife is a different story. I was doing some practice on Saturday grappling against a knife-wielding partner and passed up some easy leg-lock opportunities because I could tell they would just lead to me getting stabbed. Instead I focused on sweeping and disengaging.

 

[Juany118]

Depends on the control position you are using for the leg lock. Most of my preferred entries and control positions do not allow the opponent to kick you at all.

The knife is a different story. I was doing some practice on Saturday grappling against a knife-wielding partner and passed up some easy leg-lock opportunities because I could tell they would just lead to me getting stabbed. Instead I focused on sweeping and disengaging.

Hence why I study WC and Inosanto Kali in tandem? My only question is do I carry a straight blade or karambit? [emoji6]

Sent from my SM-G920P using Tapatalk

 

[Charlemagne]

Depends on the control position you are using for the leg lock. Most of my preferred entries and control positions do not allow the opponent to kick you at all.

Agreed.

The knife is a different story. I was doing some practice on Saturday grappling against a knife-wielding partner and passed up some easy leg-lock opportunities because I could tell they would just lead to me getting stabbed. Instead I focused on sweeping and disengaging.

Nice. This seems to be happening more in recent years, and it is good to see. There are a few guys that I know of doing some good things with weapons grappling in a BJJ paradigm. For example, Bryan Mossey, who is a Pedro Sauer Black Belt and a Full Instructor under Dan Inosanto. He is supposed to be coming out with a DVD at some point on the subject. He talks a little bit about the importance of knowing weapons in your BJJ game here:

And, you can see some of his stuff applied in a commercial he put together here:

I look forward to seeing the remainder of his material on this subject.


Craid Douglas "aka Southnarc" is doing some good stuff as well.

Just like there are many things which BJJ can learn from the sportive environment, I think that additional exploration of how weapons change things on the ground will lead to some good fruits going forward.

 

[Juany118]

Agreed.



Nice. This seems to be happening more in recent years, and it is good to see. There are a few guys that I know of doing some good things with weapons grappling in a BJJ paradigm. For example, Bryan Mossey, who is a Pedro Sauer Black Belt and a Full Instructor under Dan Inosanto. He is supposed to be coming out with a DVD at some point on the subject. He talks a little bit about the importance of knowing weapons in your BJJ game here:

And, you can see some of his stuff applied in a commercial he put together here:

I look forward to seeing the remainder of his material on this subject.


Craid Douglas "aka Southnarc" is doing some good stuff as well.

Just like there are many things which BJJ can learn from the sportive environment, I think that additional exploration of how weapons change things on the ground will lead to some good fruits going forward.

It may seem unorthodox but one of the reasons I carry a tactical folder is not only utility but weapon retention and defense. It doesn't happen often but it can be a life saver...

Cop Reaches for Knife in Fight for His Life »

 

[Charlemagne]

It may seem unorthodox but one of the reasons I carry a tactical folder is not only utility but weapon retention and defense. It doesn't happen often but it can be a life saver...

Cop Reaches for Knife in Fight for His Life »

Agreed. I train FMA in addition to BJJ, and deliberately chose to do so, so that jibes with my outlook on life as well.

 

[Juany118]

Agreed. I train FMA in addition to BJJ, and deliberately chose to do so, so that jibes with my outlook on life as well.

Yeah, I do FMA (Inosanto Kali, so it has a decent amount of grappling and ground fighting too) and WC. Now I see the weapons in FMA training primarily as learning to defend as I think the best defense comes from also understanding the use BUT to know how to use it if I am forced to is definitely a bonus.

 

[Charlemagne]

Yeah, I do FMA (Inosanto Kali, so it has a decent amount of grappling and ground fighting too) and WC. Now I see the weapons in FMA training primarily as learning to defend as I think the best defense comes from also understanding the use BUT to know how to use it if I am forced to is definitely a bonus.

I did Lacoste-Inosanto Kali for about a year, and did enjoy the training. I am now with the Pekiti Tirisia Kali Global Organization.

 

[drop bear]

Leg locks v multiple attackers.

https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=1747309098874385

 

[Kung Fu Wang]

Wait, if you agree that there are self defense situations where an assailant can end up on top of you trying to punch you or control you, then the video IS dealing with a possible self defense situation.

The leg lock can be used before your opponent gets on top of you. The successful rate may not be very high but it can be done. These 2 leg lock moves exist in many CMA systems. I have taken someone down before when I was on the ground and my opponent was standing.

Even if you may not be able to get a chance to lock your legs on your opponent's leg because he is moving around you, you can at least use this kind of leg skill (like a side kick to your opponent's knee joint) to keep him away and give you enough time to get back up.

 

[Hanzou]

Stephen Kesting discusses some considerations with the leg lock in a self defense situation.

 

[ares34]

Leg locks should be part of your system if you want to apply them effectively and how to use them in conjunction with other technics, and trained situations. I would also consider developping serious mobility and escape skills on the ground. Lastly, 1 on 1 is ok, 1 on +1 put us danger for ground situation. Fleeing might be the appropriate option if doable.

 

[drop bear]

Also the dirty catch style leg locks where you just smash their ankle would be nice to know.

 

[isshinryuronin]

There are several single and double leg takedowns and IMO they are practical in sport and many actual combat situations. The question is what you do after the opponent is on the ground (no matter how he got there). Leg locks seem hard to achieve without having excellent skills, and even then, I have seen many reversals on MMA when one slips out or rolls over. This may be OK in sport, but in actual combat, seems a little risky. For me, a quick stomp, knee drop, strike or twist on the ankle or knee joint (groin, or anywhere else) is more direct and less risky than getting tied up with the guy trying to hurt you. I would go for the quickest, simplest thing that is available and build off of that.

On the other hand, if I was very proficient in such maneuvers and found myself in good position with a leg in my arms, I might go for a leg lock - don't look a gift horse in the mouth - take what you're given. But realistically, I would think such ideal situations would be quite rare.

 

[dunc]

There are also a few leg locks that can be used from standing after a takedown that don’t require a lot of entanglement - eg estima lock
From a self defence point of view I think it’s very desirable to have the ability to damage your aggressor’s ankle / knee then disengage