Large Hadron Collider nuclear scientist charged with terror offences

[Bill Mattocks]

Doesn't the thing need a realtively large power source??

I wasn't proposing it would be stolen. It would be like stealing a nuclear power plant. On the other hand, a terrorist at the controls of a nuclear power plants stikes me as, oh, I dunno, a BAD THING. I realize that the super collider is not a nuclear power plant, but it does manipulate some rather intense energies. What could be done with them by a person who wished us ill, I do not know - I propose not finding out.

 

[elder999]

I must be the only person with any imagination here.

Hardly.

If I am a bad person with control over, say, a fork lift, I can think of lots of nasty things I can do with it besides what it was intended for, or even by using it as intended but to ill effect. I could imagine that this collider can be used for purposes other than intended.

Nope. It's the nature of such machines that they are either varying degrees of "on," or, quite simply, "off". I suppose one could introduce a variety of materials into it that might prove dangerous-like explosives, but their danger wouldn't be particularly enhanced by it, nor would they represent much of a danger to anything except the collider and its personnel.

I mean, if a terrorist wanted to blow up Geneva, they'd be better off putting the explosives in......Geneva.

I mean, Likewise, it can be sabotaged, to damage it or to cause collateral damage, one would imagine. And again, one would imagine a rather large amount of technical knowledge surrounds such things. Why it would be "OK" for a terrorist to have it is a bit beyond me. Perhaps it is not useful to terrorists. Or perhaps it is. My thought would be to err on the side on "Hell NO the terrorists cannot run our big machine!"

See above. As for his being a terrorist, it seems the scientist is guilty of one of many forms of guilt by association that can come about these days-the collider is hardly a tool or the means to tools for destruction-though one of its associated experiments might be, or at least allow access to nuclear material. THough the LHC might be a target itself....

 

[jks9199]

Nah... you're all wrong.

They're going to use the LHC to create a tunnel through time, then go back, and convert all the Founding Fathers to Islam!

 

[Bill Mattocks]

Nah... you're all wrong.

They're going to use the LHC to create a tunnel through time, then go back, and convert all the Founding Fathers to Islam!

What do you mean, 'convert'? They were all Muslims! I mean...oops....wrong universe. Sorry. Forget I said anything.

 

[Xue Sheng]

Actually I am more concerned about this.

Scientist: WOW!!!! So that is how the Big Bang…..

And the whole damn thing starts all over again

 

[MBuzzy]

Bill - I'm totally with you here. My large, I meant in power supply, not in size. You're right, a terrorist can't steal a nuclear power plant, but if he gets near the right component can cause some nasty damage.

 

[Tez3]

There's a lot more productive places from a terrorist's point of view to work.

 

[Knives]

Sounds like someone was trying to re-create Angels and Demons. Tut tut.

 

[Sukerkin]

Gentlemen and ladies, please.

The lack of scientific and engineering understanding on display here is frightening. I really hope you are playing the 'alarmism' for laughs.

The Collider will only function if everything is perfectly aligned, perfectly connected and at the perfect temperature. The failure that has kept it silent for a year was one not-perfect soldered joint in one of the interlinks between magnets.

The scientist who worked there and had foolishly linked with groups determined to be terrorist by the security services would know better than anyone here just how little he could do to cause any other incident than 'failure to operate' at the installation.

 

[Bill Mattocks]

Gentlemen and ladies, please.

The lack of scientific and engineering understanding on display here is frightening. I really hope you are playing the 'alarmism' for laughs.

The Collider will only function if everything is perfectly aligned, perfectly connected and at the perfect temperature. The failure that has kept it silent for a year was one not-perfect soldered joint in one of the interlinks between magnets.

The scientist who worked there and had foolishly linked with groups determined to be terrorist by the security services would know better than anyone here just how little he could do to cause any other incident than 'failure to operate' at the installation.

The LHC does not sit in a box all alone. It is connected to massive infrastructure, including computing resources and power in large quantities. This infrastructure has the potential for misuse. It's not so much the LHC as everything that surrounds it. Sabotage, data theft, theft of resources, etc and etc. This is top of the line stuff, and having a terrorist in amongst it alarms me - I think it should alarm others too.

Interesting how quickly some are to pooh-pooh the notion of a scientist being a terrorist - he probably just read the wrong newspapers or chatted on the wrong websites, right? Yet in the UK, it was medical doctors who carried out their most deadly terrorist attacks, was it not?

Why is it difficult to imagine a scientist having bad intent?

 

[jks9199]

Gentlemen and ladies, please.

The lack of scientific and engineering understanding on display here is frightening. I really hope you are playing the 'alarmism' for laughs.

The Collider will only function if everything is perfectly aligned, perfectly connected and at the perfect temperature. The failure that has kept it silent for a year was one not-perfect soldered joint in one of the interlinks between magnets.

The scientist who worked there and had foolishly linked with groups determined to be terrorist by the security services would know better than anyone here just how little he could do to cause any other incident than 'failure to operate' at the installation.

OK... a moment of seriousness.

The real concern is that the guy has a pretty extensive physics/engineering education, and was in communication with terrorists. It's not his current job that's a worry -- it's that he can help them do other things with that knowledge. What exactly? I don't know since I don't know his background in detail. It'd be the same concern if the guy in question was a tactical instructor for some security academy or a chemist working for GE.

 

[Ken Morgan]

OK... a moment of seriousness.

The real concern is that the guy has a pretty extensive physics/engineering education, and was in communication with terrorists. It's not his current job that's a worry -- it's that he can help them do other things with that knowledge. What exactly? I don't know since I don't know his background in detail. It'd be the same concern if the guy in question was a tactical instructor for some security academy or a chemist working for GE.

How is the man’s education an issue?

If you have the money, and if you have the qualifications, anybody from almost any country can get into some serious programs at some good schools. Every Western country is training hundreds of thousands of students from all over the world. I wouldn’t be surprised if several thousand of them were from Iraq, Iran, North Korea, Syria, etc, etc, etc not to mention the good universities in countries like China, Russia, or dozens of other places. People are studying advanced physics, Chemistry and many other things that can be nasty.

That genie has been out of the bottle for decades, and it’s not going back in.

Most of the students will be normal, boring people, hoping to make a buck, and raise a family, but some are probably nasty, nasty men and women.
We don’t have a monopoly on knowledge or learning….

 

[Carol]

OK... a moment of seriousness.

The real concern is that the guy has a pretty extensive physics/engineering education, and was in communication with terrorists. It's not his current job that's a worry -- it's that he can help them do other things with that knowledge. What exactly? I don't know since I don't know his background in detail. It'd be the same concern if the guy in question was a tactical instructor for some security academy or a chemist working for GE.

Agreed. CERN may not be the most efficient place for terrorists, but it does not look like this scientist is an Al-Qaida plant. Instead he appears to be someone reaching out to them.

 

[Bill Mattocks]

Agreed. CERN may not be the most efficient place for terrorists, but it does not look like this scientist is an Al-Qaida plant. Instead he appears to be someone reaching out to them.

All I want this guy to have access to is a cigarette and a blindfold.

 

[Tez3]

All I want this guy to have access to is a cigarette and a blindfold.

Interesting that the guy is condemned without actually knowing much about him and we all know mistakes are never made when accusing people.
Does anyone want to wait and see if he goes to trial and what the evidence is? Filing preliminary charges only means the investigators want more time to look at whats going on, nothing else. There is some evidence but there whether it's enough to actually go to trial or not isn't determined yet.

 

[Bruno@MT]

OK... a moment of seriousness.

The real concern is that the guy has a pretty extensive physics/engineering education, and was in communication with terrorists. It's not his current job that's a worry -- it's that he can help them do other things with that knowledge. What exactly? I don't know since I don't know his background in detail. It'd be the same concern if the guy in question was a tactical instructor for some security academy or a chemist working for GE.

There are so many way in which terrorists could cause mayhem that it is unbelievable they haven't done so yet. Being a scientist they would have a better grasp of tech infrastructure, but there is an enormous amount of low-tech dead simple attacks with huge casulty rates or destruction potential, not to mention psychologically effective.

Being in CERN, he is either a math, physics or engineering whiz. Not much they could misuse their education for that otherc can't do better. Nuclear terrorism is limited by the lack of raw materials and engineering requirements. Sure, he could make a dirty bomb, but you need no scientific background for that. Even with a support infrastructure, it is hard enough to build a bomb, as proven by the fact that NK's first one was a sizzle.

 

[Sukerkin]

The LHC does not sit in a box all alone. It is connected to massive infrastructure, including computing resources and power in large quantities. This infrastructure has the potential for misuse. It's not so much the LHC as everything that surrounds it. Sabotage, data theft, theft of resources, etc and etc. This is top of the line stuff, and having a terrorist in amongst it alarms me - I think it should alarm others too.

Other than the 'alarm' sentiment for that speciifc environment, I completely agree. A terrorist anywhere is not on my list of things I consider good.

Why is it difficult to imagine a scientist having bad intent?

It isn't - I'll leave it at that as Tez's post above said it all about automatic presumption of guilt.

 

[Tez3]

It's not so much people in these type of jobs that worry me so much as those who work in 'invisible' jobs. The chaps who work in the sewers, school caretakers, taxi drivers,the utility workers...not sure what you call them but the ones who we see everyday but take no notice of at all so can go practically anywhere without suspicion. Postmen, waiters,bus drivers that sort of job. How often do you notice them in the street or are they basically invisible? have you been in the back of a taxi chatting with your mates and totally forgotten the driver was there, could you recognise him again? would you take much notice of a postman walking down the street, they go into every building as do delivery drivers, normal evryday business but the access they have to buildings is amazing, people just don't take any notice if someone looks as if they should be there.

We have a joke that you can walk around all day where we work doing nothing as long as you have a file or some papers in your hand and look busy, great way to waste a whole shift but it's true.
As we learned with the IRA the best defence against terrorists is the people being vigilant, noticing what should be there and what shouldn't and reporting it asap. Not to get paranoid and becoming snitches btw but use common sense and stay vigilant. It's often stated as being needed for SD but it's also useful for anti terrorism.

 

[Xue Sheng]

It's not so much people in these type of jobs that worry me so much as those who work in 'invisible' jobs. The chaps who work in the sewers, school caretakers, taxi drivers,the utility workers...not sure what you call them but the ones who we see everyday but take no notice of at all so can go practically anywhere without suspicion. Postmen, waiters,bus drivers that sort of job. How often do you notice them in the street or are they basically invisible? have you been in the back of a taxi chatting with your mates and totally forgotten the driver was there, could you recognise him again? would you take much notice of a postman walking down the street, they go into every building as do delivery drivers, normal evryday business but the access they have to buildings is amazing, people just don't take any notice if someone looks as if they should be there.

We have a joke that you can walk around all day where we work doing nothing as long as you have a file or some papers in your hand and look busy, great way to waste a whole shift but it's true.
As we learned with the IRA the best defence against terrorists is the people being vigilant, noticing what should be there and what shouldn't and reporting it asap. Not to get paranoid and becoming snitches btw but use common sense and stay vigilant. It's often stated as being needed for SD but it's also useful for anti terrorism.

Yup, how many high profile jobs did the terrorist of 9/11 have? How many high profile jobs did the terrorists that first tried to blow up the World Trade center in 1993 have? How high profile was Timothy McVeigh?

I know this is going off post but if anyone is interested here are a few good books on terrorism

Terrorism 4th Edition
2002 Update
Jonathan R. White.

It is a good historical over view

Another book focusing on domestic terrorism in America is

Understanding Terrorism on America
From the Klan to Al Qaeda
Christopher Hewitt.
Domestic Terrorism and Incident Management, Issues and Tactics
Miki Vohryzek-Bolden
Gayle Olson-Raymer
Jeffrey O. Whamond

 

[Tez3]

I'm thinking this scientist was probably one of the 'idealists' and a sympathiser, if he had information or knowledge useful to a terrorist group they would have been very anxious for him not to have any links to them or any Islamic site for that matter.