lap sau exercise

[mantis]

having little knowledge about WC i cannot recognize the difference between chi sau and lap sau exercises.

any hints?

 

[bcbernam777]

Lap sau is generally introduced in the Chum Kui level, It really is an energy drill the same as Chi sau, however it specifically trains the one legged stance or the 100% weight that is outlined in the chum kui. (see my other posts on Chum Kui) The Lap Sau is not a rolling action but more of adirecting energy, or linear energy that utilises the stance energy to both physically and mentally trap (or freeze your opponant). The sou8rce of the specific Lop Sau movements are from the Chum Kui and can find expression in the Chi Sau.

 

[yipman_sifu]

Lap sau is generally introduced in the Chum Kui level, It really is an energy drill the same as Chi sau, however it specifically trains the one legged stance or the 100% weight that is outlined in the chum kui. (see my other posts on Chum Kui) The Lap Sau is not a rolling action but more of adirecting energy, or linear energy that utilises the stance energy to both physically and mentally trap (or freeze your opponant). The sou8rce of the specific Lop Sau movements are from the Chum Kui and can find expression in the Chi Sau.

In WT of Leung Ting's. We learn Lap Sau at the begining, Chi Sao comes later. A beginner takes about 10 months unitl introduced to Chi Sao. I mean most of them, of course some can get to Chi Sao earlier or some of them needs more than 10 months, it depends on the progress, but 10 months is general.
By the way, Lap Sau is the best training for me. I grasped it really easily and still finds it much more easier than Chi Sao.

 

[mantis]

In WT of Leung Ting's. We learn Lap Sau at the begining, Chi Sao comes later. A beginner takes about 10 months unitl introduced to Chi Sao. I mean most of them, of course some can get to Chi Sao earlier or some of them needs more than 10 months, it depends on the progress, but 10 months is general.
By the way, Lap Sau is the best training for me. I grasped it really easily and still finds it much more easier than Chi Sao.

so what does lap sau develop for you until you "qualify" for exercising chi sau?

 

[yipman_sifu]

so what does lap sau develop for you until you "qualify" for exercising chi sau?

To put it simply matis. lap Sau is a little coordinated type of sparring which goes a puk/punch, while we found our opponents weakness and infilitrate his defence?attacking strategy. Such training modifies reflexes and allows you respond faster to attacks. Now Chi Sao comes to improve Lap Sau in the sensing strategy. It modifies your feeling that might allow you to feel your opponent force and directs it against him. At the end it becomes combined as Lap Sau training combined to use the Chi Sao strategy in which you can fully understand the movements you gan get, feel, let go, and counter attack BOOOM. That's it.

 

[bcbernam777]

To put it simply matis. lap Sau is a little coordinated type of sparring which goes a puk/punch, while we found our opponents weakness and infilitrate his defence?attacking strategy. Such training modifies reflexes and allows you respond faster to attacks. Now Chi Sao comes to improve Lap Sau in the sensing strategy. It modifies your feeling that might allow you to feel your opponent force and directs it against him. At the end it becomes combined as Lap Sau training combined to use the Chi Sao strategy in which you can fully understand the movements you gan get, feel, let go, and counter attack BOOOM. That's it.

Interesting perspectiveon the Lop Sau, this is not what Sifu says it is for, but each to their own i guess

 

[monji112000]

Lap sao drills are for getting the basic mechanics, timing, coordination, speed ect..

Lap sao can be used in Chi sao and fighting. Its a very good technique if you can apply it. I am a little sad that no one sees that its a technique for fighting and chi sao.

Fighting examples:


someone round kicks or hard jabs
the other person Gan saos and follows with a lap sao then a knee or a palm to the face or throught.

 

[mantis]

Lap sao drills are for getting the basic mechanics, timing, coordination, speed ect..

Lap sao can be used in Chi sao and fighting. Its a very good technique if you can apply it. I am a little sad that no one sees that its a technique for fighting and chi sao.

Fighting examples:


someone round kicks or hard jabs
the other person Gan saos and follows with a lap sao then a knee or a palm to the face or throught.

so lap sau is not a specific exercise. it could be a short combination of basic techniques, like a block then a jab for example. correct?

 

[monji112000]

"lap sau is not a specific exercise. it could be a short combination of basic techniques, like a block then a jab for example. correct?"


Maybe your Sifu has shown it to you in that way. BUT, Lap sao is a specific technique. I believe it translates to something like controlling hand or trapping hand or something like that. Most WC styles have a drill called Lap sao. Which is somewhat like one person has a bong sao, the other throws a hammer type fist. Next the person with the bong sao will LAP SAO by hitting with the guarding hand and back fisting with the bong sao. Since its a drill the other person will do the same and meet the back(hammer fist what ever) fist with a bong sao. Back and forth so on.

Thats just the basics you can also elbow in directly and then tie them up. ect.. many auxiliary drills related to the Lap Sao exercise.

Maybe you are referring to a large group of techniques as Lap sao? OR maybe its just a difference of styles. I am not trying to bash your style or push my views on you so please don't take it that way.
.

 

[mantis]

no actually i was asking more than informing. I was never introduced to lap sau before this thread

 

[monji112000]

OK let me find some examples if I can...
here is a old clip of a simple lap sao drill. Its kind of in the background.
http://wingchunkungfu.cn/mpg2000/070500b.mpg

OK here is a few people I know going over a basic aplication for qwan sao, lapsao and a knee
http://wingchunkungfu.cn/Mastermpg/092299t.mpg
They are going slow and working on mechanics.

Here is a Gan sao , then a lap sao then a knee against a light round kick then a punch.
http://wingchunkungfu.cn/Mastermpg/092499za.mpg

they are not perfect examples but they can give you a good idea.

 

[mantis]

OK let me find some examples if I can...
here is a old clip of a simple lap sao drill. Its kind of in the background.
http://wingchunkungfu.cn/mpg2000/070500b.mpg

OK here is a few people I know going over a basic aplication for qwan sao, lapsao and a knee
http://wingchunkungfu.cn/Mastermpg/092299t.mpg
They are going slow and working on mechanics.

Here is a Gan sao , then a lap sao then a knee against a light round kick then a punch.
http://wingchunkungfu.cn/Mastermpg/092499za.mpg

they are not perfect examples but they can give you a good idea.

yeah, this is actually pretty good.
got it
thank you all for the information here and in my PM box.
thanks!

 

[marcus_p]

Hi Mantis,

One important aspect of training Chi Sau and Lap Sau is to learn about coverage. Here is a clip of my SiFu explaining the two.

/Marcus

having little knowledge about WC i cannot recognize the difference between chi sau and lap sau exercises.

any hints?

 

[monji112000]

Covering is something I don't think anyone else realy talks about. Its a night and day concept, that Sifu allen explains very well.

 

[mantis]

Hi Mantis,

One important aspect of training Chi Sau and Lap Sau is to learn about coverage. Here is a clip of my SiFu explaining the two.

/Marcus

Yes, this is good actually. I'll be looking for videos on Sifu Allen Lee, he seems good at least at explaining the stuff

 

[marcus_p]

Hello Mantis,

My SiFu tells all of us not to blindly believe what he says. He insists that we try everything ourselves and employ common sense and logic to gain the knowledge for ourselves. He prefers students to question everything.

Here's another explanation of coverage. It is such an important concept, that when applied with simultaneous offense and defense - nullifies many of your adversaries physical advantages.

/Marcus

Yes, this is good actually. I'll be looking for videos on Sifu Allen Lee, he seems good at least at explaining the stuff

 

[fightingfat]

Do you train Lok Sau (rolling Arm)? Surely this would demonstrate exactly what laap is for? (To clear your opponent's gaurd).

 

[monji112000]

I have never heard that term before lok sau. I googled it and this came up:
http://brooklynkungfu.com/quicktime/luksaomed.mov

I am not sure 100% what they are doing LOL but It would seem they are trying to roll.

You can you Lop Sau in Chi sao, and I can think of a few ways to use the Lop sau technique directly from Rolling hands.

But it can be used many other ways also. Watch the clip Marcus put Duncan's Diciple Allen Lee explains it well with the concept of covering.

 

[barriecusvein]

I am not sure 100% what they are doing LOL but It would seem they are trying to roll.

lok sau is just another name for rolling hands, double sticking hands or whatever. i can see how it was hard from that video though, they where, erm, poor.

 

[fightingfat]

That wasn't lok sau- I dunno what that was!

Lok sau is not chi sau either.

Lok sau is one person does bong and the other person does a rolling punch onto it (or does a rolling punch the other person block it with bong) then the person with bong paaks the fist away and uses his other hand to do a rolling punch which the other person blocks with bong. There are various attacks you can implement, at the basic level this involves laaping on the change and striking forward, chopping to the neck across the front or to the side or several low attacks. Bong is the founding principle of lok sau. It trains tactile response- i.e. teaches you to recognise when you have a hand free to hit. It is useful because it teaches you (at a basic level) how to deal with someone moving through your gaurd; for example, in the street, if you are confronted with an agressor and raise your gaurd, they will have to come through this in order to strike you. The liklihood is that they will grab and pull the front hand away- in wing chun we are taught 'hand freed flies forward' so you know that when you are laaped- you hit forward.

Some video here http://ukwingchun.com/Wing_Chun_Kung_Fu_Video.htm#lok