Lady instructors

[Bret Hinds]

I posted this awhile back and still have not gotten a answer, What do you call a female instructor? As in Sabumnim, nim means sir? I have a lady instructor who teaches with me, I would like to know the correct term to address her by. All the best in the arts

 

[matt.m]

Ma'am, Mrs.,Ms, Miss (insert last name). That is what I would and do. I don't care if it is a black belt leading class or a red belt. If it is a female leading class then that what I have always done.

 

[RED]

Ask her. When I'm in doubt as to what someone wants to be called I go and ask. One instructor told me to call him by his first name in class. I said "no disrespect but can I call you Mr. XYZ?" because I am just that way. He was good with that too. People wont think anything of you asking. And if they do then that's their problem, not yours.

 

[morph4me]

As I recall from my Korean language classes taken back in the 70's nim is an honorific ending to a title, it doesn't necessarily mean sir. Sabum is the title, nim just makes it honorific, it doesn't denote gender.

 

[terryl965]

I posted this awhile back and still have not gotten a answer, What do you call a female instructor? As in Sabumnim, nim means sir? I have a lady instructor who teaches with me, I would like to know the correct term to address her by. All the best in the arts

Ok I was under the impression that Saumnim means Head Instructor, which could be either.

 

[Kacey]

As Morph4me said, I have always understood "nim" to be an honorific, but not gender-specific; however, English being gender-specific, and early instructors being male, it was translated as "Instructor Sir" rather than "Honored Instructor", which is, to my understanding, a more correct translation. I would go look it up, but I don't really feel like explaining the whole thing to my mother right now, which I'd have to do if I went downstairs to get my Korean language text...

My students call me Ms. or Sahbumnim, depending on the situation.

 

[Last Fearner]

What do you call a female instructor?

Answer #1: "A rarity!" It would be nice if there were more female instructors, but the male dominated world (including the Martial Art) will take some time to balance out, I suppose. My wife is a 3rd Dan Instructor, and a very good one at that! (I taught her myself :ultracool )

Answer #2: "You call her anything she wants!!! - lol

Answer #3: (the serious answer) - It depends on what level of instructor she is, and whether you are senior or junior to her, as well as what the standard practice is at your Dojang according the school owner.

Here are some examples:

____________________~You are senior~_____~She is senior~______
1. 조교 ; 조교님
Assistant Instructor . . . . Jokyo (joe-kyo) . . . . Jokyonim (joe-kyo-nim)

2. 교사 ; 교사님
Teacher / Instructor . . . . Kyosa (kyo-sah) . . . . Kyosanim (kyo-sah-nim)

3. 사범 ; 사범님
Teacher / Master . . . . . Sabeom (sah-buhm) . . Sabeomnim (sah-buhm-nim)
(various spellings include: "sabuhm," "sabom," or "sahbuhm")

4. 관장 ; 관장님
Grandmaster . . . . . Kwanjang (kwahn-jahng) . . . . Kwanjangnim (kwahn-jahng-nim)

As in Sabumnim, nim means sir?

The other members who answered this are correct, so I am just confirming. These terms refer to titles of teachers, and are not gender specific. The suffix "nim" is honorific when a junior is speaking to or about a senior, thus a school master would refer to himself (or herself) as "Sabeom," not "Sabeomnim." The term "nim" means either "sir" or "ma'am" as an English translation, but the concept is more of "honored" or "honorable" as in one who is your elder, boss, or teacher.

CM D.J. Eisenhart

 

[MSUTKD]

Last Fearner, your Korean is very good as is your understanding of the language. We really do have to get together sometime soon, maybe Miles would join us.


One very important note here; never refer to yourself as “nim”. If I introduce myself, in Korean, I would say that I was a taekwondo sabum. If I call myself “nim” this is considered a bit arrogant. My students can say “nim” to me.

ron

 

[wade]

My 2 cents, for what it is worth. These are actual instructors of mine and this is their actual KKW rank. Sara has her own school and is a 5th Dan, Kristine has her own school and is a 4th Dan. Ashly, a 4th Dan and Kay, a 5th Dan (not full time instructors) all go by "Master ___________". Carolyn teaches at her home and is a 3rd Dan, she goes by Ms. _________. Elisa, Kendal, Kayla and Morgan are all between 1st and 3rd Dan and work as assistant instructors. They are called Ms. ____________________. Course, ya gotta remember they are mine and in this case I make the rules. I don't worry about what might be right technically as much as I worry about what sounds right to the students and giving the Instructors the respect they have earned. A Master is a Master. And before you ask, yes, I do have male BB's and Master ranks, it's just that the question was about females.

 

[MA-Caver]

Ask her. When I'm in doubt as to what someone wants to be called I go and ask. One instructor told me to call him by his first name in class. I said "no disrespect but can I call you Mr. XYZ?" because I am just that way. He was good with that too. People wont think anything of you asking. And if they do then that's their problem, not yours.

Agreed! The only stupid question is the one you didn't ask. I've had my (caving) students try to call me Mr. and I <shudder> hate that. m'name's Ralph and I'm damn glad to meet cha. But then again it's always an informal setting. In a formal setting then I guess the honorific is needed. For MA instruction yes, a sign of resepct in the dojo and to the instructor(s) is always a formal setting... during classes. Semi-formal (IMO) in between.

What Red said... ask your instructor directly and she'll be happy to let you know what she prefers.

 

[IcemanSK]

Ma'am, Miss, Ms., Mrs., Master, Grandmaster, whatever their rank.

 

[Bret Hinds]

Thanks to all who reply, Last Fearner you gave me the title I was looking for KYOSA. All the best in the arts

 

[Last Fearner]

Last Fearner, your Korean is very good as is your understanding of the language. We really do have to get together sometime soon, maybe Miles would join us.

ron

Thank you very much. I know I have much to learn, and still look forward to being able to speak Korean conversation more fluently!

I would love to get together! Perhaps we can make that happen early in 2007. It would be great if Miles and any of the other MT'ers from Michigan and the surrounding area could join us. Let's make it happen!

Last Fearner

 

[terryl965]

Thank you very much. I know I have much to learn, and still look forward to being able to speak Korean conversation more fluently!

I would love to get together! Perhaps we can make that happen early in 2007. It would be great if Miles and any of the other MT'ers from Michigan and the surrounding area could join us. Let's make it happen!

Last Fearner

Well not from Michigan but I wil travel

 

[cali_tkdbruin]

I posted this awhile back and still have not gotten a answer, What do you call a female instructor? As in Sabumnim, nim means sir? I have a lady instructor who teaches with me, I would like to know the correct term to address her by. All the best in the arts

To Last Fearner, thanks for the good info .

Hey Bret, BTW, regarding the title of this thread, to be PC, wouldn't Woman Instuctor, or Female Instructor be a better title? Lady Instructor sounds like those "old school" minded institutions that still refer to their female sports teams as the Lady Tigers, Lady Bulldogs, Lady Monarchs, etc, etc...
:-offtopic

 

[cali_tkdbruin]

Oh, I guess I think more PC now because I have a daughter who's also a martial artist, so she sets me straight. She says she's simply a martial artist first and formost. BTW, she doesn't fight like a girl, err LADY... :ultracool

 

[wade]

Cali, I broached your response about your daughter "not fighting like a girl" to the females in my classes and they all want to know "how does a girl fight"? What the difference was and was it any better or worse than what they are doing now. They all put on ho-goo, head gear and everything else required by USAT full contact sparring rules, and spar just like the male players under the same rules and were just, well, wondering.......

 

[Miles]

We have a couple of ladies in our dojang who are ...bruisers (and I mean that in a respectful manner). They have absolutely no problem mixing it up with anyone. You can't tell they are female when they have their sparring gear on. And that's the way it should be.

Miles

 

[Dave Leverich]

CM E, thank you Sir. You explained it much better, and much more in depth than I could have. I still feel like a kindergardener when it comes to Korean heh. But, we all start at 'Go' heh.

I recently carved a piece of red oak for GM Pierce up here (Jack Pierce, you might know him from your old ATA days, he's HTF KJN now), with Kwan Jahng Nim. I knew how it sounded, but wasn't certain of it's spelling until I read your earlier post. Kuh uuu ah nnn, I hadn't realized it was all four, rather than the k yu sound, so that helped much. (Sorry, didn't want to spell out the gi-ok etc letters).

He loved the carving, as he is the KJN of the HTF, I saw his eyes glisten as I presented him with it and explained to the seminar he was running, of it's meaning.

Thank you again Sir, I hope your holidays are great.

Ps. On the women instructors? Heck, we even made shirts for one of our last tournaments that showed a female kicker with the saying 'Yes I DO, kick like a girl'. It's by no means.. any kind of slight around my parts. 9 out of 10 women I know are more flexible than the men, we've got some amazing instructors, that happen to be women. In English, we use Ms Mrs, but there's no distinction in Korean. Sunsenim is simply respectful, to a senior male or female, same with Sabeomnim etc.

 

[wade]

Cali, not wanting to be push, but we, my female students and I, are still waiting on the answer, how does one "fight like a girl"?