Kyokushin vs Shito Ryu

[Skaw]

I want to return to training in September (after work commitments allow) and, while researching what my city offers, I discovered a Shito Ryu dojo while looking for information about the Kyokushin dojo I'm interested in.

So, I have some questions that I hope Shito Ryu practitioners can answer:

• What is Shito Ryu?
• Do you normally practice kumite? If so, is it full contact?
• Do you do any non-striking techniques, such as grappling, throws, or sweeps?
• What do you like and dislike about Shito Ryu?

 

[isshinryuronin]

Shito ryu is basically an Okinawan style but significantly Japanized. To understand the style you have to know its creator, Kenwa Mabuni, one of the most respected giants and developer of modern karate (1920's-30's). He was described as a collector of kata. He studied with masters from both main branches of Okinawan karate, Shuri-te and Naha-te, as well as with Arigake Seisho, whose lineage predates the establishment of those two branches. He also spent time with weapons master, Taira Shinken.

Shito ryu has the following features: Very traditional approach. Many kata. Some sparring, likely not full contact. Takedowns and sweeps. Traditional Okinawan weapons.

Kyokushin, which IMO is more non-traditional, is sport oriented. Heavy contact sparring. It has kata but not much stressed. Being sport oriented, some features of TMA may not be allowed under competition rules and so not taught.

Two very different arts so it depends on what you're looking for. Keep in mind that despite the style, the particular school/instructor may have their own agenda.

 

[Skaw]

Shito ryu is basically an Okinawan style but significantly Japanized. To understand the style you have to know its creator, Kenwa Mabuni, one of the most respected giants and developer of modern karate (1920's-30's). He was described as a collector of kata. He studied with masters from both main branches of Okinawan karate, Shuri-te and Naha-te, as well as with Arigake Seisho, whose lineage predates the establishment of those two branches. He also spent time with weapons master, Taira Shinken.

Shito ryu has the following features: Very traditional approach. Many kata. Some sparring, likely not full contact. Takedowns and sweeps. Traditional Okinawan weapons.

Kyokushin, which IMO is more non-traditional, is sport oriented. Heavy contact sparring. It has kata but not much stressed. Being sport oriented, some features of TMA may not be allowed under competition rules and so not taught.

Two very different arts so it depends on what you're looking for. Keep in mind that despite the style, the particular school/instructor may have their own agenda.

Welp. As I understand the use of Katas, being so focused on them won't be my cup of tea. Thanks for your answer!

 

[Fungus]

Shito ryu is basically an Okinawan style but significantly Japanized. To understand the style you have to know its creator, Kenwa Mabuni, one of the most respected giants and developer of modern karate (1920's-30's). He was described as a collector of kata. He studied with masters from both main branches of Okinawan karate, Shuri-te and Naha-te, as well as with Arigake Seisho, whose lineage predates the establishment of those two branches. He also spent time with weapons master, Taira Shinken.

Shito ryu has the following features: Very traditional approach. Many kata. Some sparring, likely not full contact. Takedowns and sweeps. Traditional Okinawan weapons.

Kyokushin, which IMO is more non-traditional, is sport oriented. Heavy contact sparring. It has kata but not much stressed. Being sport oriented, some features of TMA may not be allowed under competition rules and so not taught.

I have to object to the description, for me karate or kyokushing is NOT first of alla a sport nor about competitions

Only a fraction of the practitioners in our club compete. And among those that compete, some compete in contact fighting, some compete in KATA. In fact our of our instructors was representing top leage of European karatekas in the world championchip in Japan last year representing Europe. He is very serious with KATA. Just like we have in kyokushin kumite squads, we have KATA squads for thoese that want to get more serious in either.

Full contact training should not be confused with competition, I think the competition aspect is not the reason for why we sparr full contact. It's beacuse also in a self defense situation, having solid experience with the emotional experience of beeing hit hard, and know how to handle it, means you are less likely to get shocked or panic. We also train techniques for "damage" not for "touchcontact points". This goes far beyond "compettion" and I myself do not view kyokushin as a sport, although a fraction of the practitioners do it in sport form.

I think a focus of kyokushin is endurance and physical conditioning, knowing your limits which goes beyond "sports". The same qualities are good to have in case you end up in a real fight.

 

[Hot Lunch]

When I left the Shorin-ryu dojo, my options were Shotokan and Shito-ryu. I ended up going with Shotokan, ONLY because the owner of the Shito-ryu dojo happens to be close friends with the owner of the Shorin-ryu dojo that I left; and I was pretty much in the venting phase at the time. I didn't want to have to answer the eventual question, "So why the switch?" Were that not a factor, I'd have chosen Shito-ryu.

Shito-ryu is often regarded as the most "complete" style karate, because while there are many styles that mix Shuri-te, Naha-te, and Tomari-te; they take a "best of each" approach to it. Shito-ryu, on the hand, takes an "all of each" approach to it. A Shito-ryu guy who is of the highest technical dan grade knows what both a Shorin-ryu and a Goju-ryu guy at their respective highest technical dan grades know.

Most styles have more than one point of criticism, yet the only one I've ever heard of Shito-ryu is "too many katas."

As for Kyokushin, that's for a totally different breed of person. Personally, I recommend watching a class (and a belt test, if you can) to see if you are of that breed.

 

[Skaw]

When I left the Shorin-ryu dojo, my options were Shotokan and Shito-ryu. I ended up going with Shotokan, ONLY because the owner of the Shito-ryu dojo happens to be close friends with the owner of the Shorin-ryu dojo that I left; and I was pretty much in the venting phase at the time. I didn't want to have to answer the eventual question, "So why the switch?" Were that not a factor, I'd have chosen Shito-ryu.

Shito-ryu is often regarded as the most "complete" style karate, because while there are many styles that mix Shuri-te, Naha-te, and Tomari-te; they take a "best of each" approach to it. Shito-ryu, on the hand, takes an "all of each" approach to it. A Shito-ryu guy who is of the highest technical dan grade knows what both a Shorin-ryu and a Goju-ryu guy at their respective highest technical dan grades know.

Most styles have more than one point of criticism, yet the only one I've ever heard of Shito-ryu is "too many katas."

As for Kyokushin, that's for a totally different breed of person. Personally, I recommend watching a class (and a belt test, if you can) to see if you are of that breed.

I like that Shito-Ryu incorporates "a bit of everything" (some senseis even teach a bit of ground fighting). Regarding the emphasis on Kata, I have seen the belt requirements, and one kata per kyu is not as demanding as I expected.

What concerns me is the kumite, or lack thereof. I had a hard time finding kumite videos, and the ones I found were only point fighting. Despite this, I might try to watch a Shito-Ryu class before deciding.

 

[isshinryuronin]

Full contact training should not be confused with competition training.

I think the competition aspect is not the reason for why we sparr full contact. It's beacuse also in a self defense situation, having solid experience with the emotional experience of beeing hit hard, and know how to handle it, means you are less likely to get shocked or panic.

I fully agree with all of the above. I was painting in broad strokes, emphasizing the general differences based on my personal observations. As I mentioned, individual schools will have their own approach. Some shito ryu dojo may do more sparring with varying contact and some kyokushin dojo may spend significant time on kata. This is what Skaw needs to check out. But I still think that most guys getting into kyokushin aren't doing it for the kata.