Kung Fu School Information please?

[Databit]

White Willow - What is this? What kind of style? What is its Chinese name? Why is it listed in English and not Chinese?


This style is only two years old and created by Scott. He has stated the Chinese name, based on the different arts used to create it, but I cannot tell you what they are.

 

[grayarea]

Hi all. Why is it so easy to doubt everyone these days? You guys go to the point of saying he is a bad guy just because he has an impressive resume. It is hard to have a short resume when you have been dutifully studying a discipline for 30 years. Of course the bad reports are coming from banned or otherwise closed accounts.

I have been studying under Sigung Winokur for almost 4 years. I am now 48 years old and I am a great deal more sensative, stonger, tougher, smarter, more agile than I was 4 years ago. I have him to thank for that. If I had been weak hearted or not dedicated I would have left long ago.

Your martial arts teacher cannot give you everything you need to survive in this world. You have to come in with desire to learn and the willingness to listen. Most that walk through your door will have neither. I am speaking from the standpoint of a dedicated student.

As for the rest Sigung Scott Winokur, in my opinion, is real. Also, he is not rich. He weeds out many more students than most in martial arts. He is looking for students that are worthy of learning the art. The arts that are being taught can kill and the teacher needs to know who he/she is teaching.

I will stop now. This will probably not be read anyway.

Have a blessed day.

Charles Gray
Kansas City, MO

 

[Tensei85]

Congratulations.
Chi Lu Chuan Kung Fu - What does this mean and what kind of style is it?

Chi Lu Quan - not sure of the exact meaning would need characters.

But Chi Lu does not mean 8 animals, in fact if anything chi would be qi (7)

Probably not this Chi Lu - 赤露 Bare:

Could be qin 禽 which is bird:

Lu would probably be 路 which is road which would make sense.

And of course Quan 拳 which is fist.

White Willow - What is this? What kind of style? What is its Chinese name? Why is it listed in English and not Chinese?

White willow - 白柳 - Bai Liu:

Here's my answers in blue to the topic's questions but I'm not a member or student of that organization, so don't have any inside details.

 

[Tensei85]

Hi all. Why is it so easy to doubt everyone these days? You guys go to the point of saying he is a bad guy just because he has an impressive resume. It is hard to have a short resume when you have been dutifully studying a discipline for 30 years. Of course the bad reports are coming from banned or otherwise closed accounts.

I have been studying under Sigung Winokur for almost 4 years. I am now 48 years old and I am a great deal more sensative, stonger, tougher, smarter, more agile than I was 4 years ago. I have him to thank for that. If I had been weak hearted or not dedicated I would have left long ago.

Your martial arts teacher cannot give you everything you need to survive in this world. You have to come in with desire to learn and the willingness to listen. Most that walk through your door will have neither. I am speaking from the standpoint of a dedicated student.

As for the rest Sigung Scott Winokur, in my opinion, is real. Also, he is not rich. He weeds out many more students than most in martial arts. He is looking for students that are worthy of learning the art. The arts that are being taught can kill and the teacher needs to know who he/she is teaching.

I will stop now. This will probably not be read anyway.

Have a blessed day.

Charles Gray
Kansas City, MO

That's great I agree 100%, as long as your happy doing what your doing & are gaining something valuable than its worth the time & effort put into it.
Best of luck with training, remember its just the internet so don't sweat the small stuff...

BTW: since your a member of the org. can you update us a little more about "Chi Lu Chuan" & the "Bai Liu" that is taught at your School?

P.S. when you get time can you ask your Sifu what the Chinese characters are for his "Chi Lu Quan"? so its easier to understand for some of us.

Thanks a lot,

 

[mograph]

I have been studying under Sigung Winokur for almost 4 years. I am now 48 years old and I am a great deal more sensative, stonger, tougher, smarter, more agile than I was 4 years ago. I have him to thank for that. If I had been weak hearted or not dedicated I would have left long ago.

.......

I will stop now. This will probably not be read anyway.

Hey, I read it. Your experience sounds great. More power to you and your Sigung.

 

[bowser666]

I know this is a fairly old thread, but this sounds like a classic McKwoon. As we all know in CMA a lineage is usually referenced. I did not see any reference to any of his lineage, regardless of what style it is. Usually teachers that never reference a lineage are suspect in my book. My guess is he has a expansive DVD/VHS video library.

 

[Xue Sheng]

Hi all. Why is it so easy to doubt everyone these days? You guys go to the point of saying he is a bad guy just because he has an impressive resume. It is hard to have a short resume when you have been dutifully studying a discipline for 30 years. Of course the bad reports are coming from banned or otherwise closed accounts.

I have been studying under Sigung Winokur for almost 4 years. I am now 48 years old and I am a great deal more sensative, stonger, tougher, smarter, more agile than I was 4 years ago. I have him to thank for that. If I had been weak hearted or not dedicated I would have left long ago.

Your martial arts teacher cannot give you everything you need to survive in this world. You have to come in with desire to learn and the willingness to listen. Most that walk through your door will have neither. I am speaking from the standpoint of a dedicated student.

As for the rest Sigung Scott Winokur, in my opinion, is real. Also, he is not rich. He weeds out many more students than most in martial arts. He is looking for students that are worthy of learning the art. The arts that are being taught can kill and the teacher needs to know who he/she is teaching.

I will stop now. This will probably not be read anyway.

Have a blessed day.

Charles Gray
Kansas City, MO

a couple of questions does Sigung Scott Winokur tell his students he is to be called Sigung or did they just start calling him that?

And does Sigung Scott Winokur or his students have any idea what Sigung means?

 

[grayarea]

Hi all! Scott Winokur has not been here to answer any questions. There have only been a couple disgruntled former students without real names and me.

I believe Sigung rough translation is Master Teacher. He is an 8th degree black sash in Chi Lu Chuan 8 Animal Kung Fu. I think I am the only one that calls him that. Most still call him Sifu which is still correct.

He actually has information on what students/teachers of different levels are titled.

That McKwoon comment is very jaded. I am sorry that you have such a poor opinion of the world's occupants. I am just now being asked about any lineage. I believe if due diligence on your part were conducted then you would find the answer on your own. I will help you. Go to: http://www.kungfukc.com

Have a wonderful day.

Charles Gray
A lowly student of Kung Fu

 

[grayarea]

Sorry all. The titles of different sash levels is on the website listed. I forgot to finish my sentence.

Charles Gray

 

[Flying Crane]

.

I believe Sigung rough translation is Master Teacher. He is an 8th degree black sash in Chi Lu Chuan 8 Animal Kung Fu. I think I am the only one that calls him that. Most still call him Sifu which is still correct.


Charles Gray
A lowly student of Kung Fu

Hi Charles,

I am sorry, but you are absolutely wrong about this. Sifu is YOUR teacher. Sigung is your TEACHER'S teacher.

To use the title of sigung in a general way just does not make sense. You are literally calling him, "Hey, My Teacher's Teacher..."

If he is your teacher, then he is Sifu. Period. It does not matter what level of rank he may have been awarded.

If you have students of your own, then to your students, he is Sigung.

 

[Xue Sheng]

Hi all! Scott Winokur has not been here to answer any questions. There have only been a couple disgruntled former students without real names and me.

I believe Sigung rough translation is Master Teacher. He is an 8th degree black sash in Chi Lu Chuan 8 Animal Kung Fu. I think I am the only one that calls him that. Most still call him Sifu which is still correct.

He actually has information on what students/teachers of different levels are titled.

That McKwoon comment is very jaded. I am sorry that you have such a poor opinion of the world's occupants. I am just now being asked about any lineage. I believe if due diligence on your part were conducted then you would find the answer on your own. I will help you. Go to: http://www.kungfukc.com

Have a wonderful day.

Charles Gray
A lowly student of Kung Fu

This has already been addressed by Crane but you may want to look here as well, it is not directed at you but at those that teach CMA and tell all they are to be called Sigung.

Hi Charles,

I am sorry, but you are absolutely wrong about this. Sifu is YOUR teacher. Sigung is your TEACHER'S teacher.

To use the title of sigung in a general way just does not make sense. You are literally calling him, "Hey, My Teacher's Teacher..."

If he is your teacher, then he is Sifu. Period. It does not matter what level of rank he may have been awarded.

If you have students of your own, then to your students, he is Sigung.

Also traditional CMA there are no belt ranks, sashes or 8th degrees

 

[Tensei85]

OMG, when will it end??

I vote for in America lets forget Sifu/Shifu & just go by Mr. & Mrs. from now on...

I think most of the problem is in American Society(etc...), most Americans tend to view things as ranks & levels, well & sometimes belts.

But in CMA its about Familial Hierarchy, not 10th 0r 100th degree black belts. (Other than the newer devised Duan system of ranking for Modern Wushu)

Just repeating pretty much whats already been stated 100,000,000 times or more... but it seems it can't be stressed enough.

 

[UNYMA]

Oddly enough some systems actually do specify the use of Sigung, Sifu etc with specific belt ranks. Kajukenbo does it for some reason. I don't know why and it certainly seems to muddy up the waters so to speak.

 

[Flying Crane]

Oddly enough some systems actually do specify the use of Sigung, Sifu etc with specific belt ranks. Kajukenbo does it for some reason. I don't know why and it certainly seems to muddy up the waters so to speak.

then they clearly do not understand what the terms actually mean.

 

[Xue Sheng]

then they clearly do not understand what the terms actually mean.

It's kind of like telling your kids to call you Grandpa

 

[Flying Crane]

Yeah, I think people misunderstand Sigung to mean something a little more abstract, like "The Teacher of Teachers", or "Master Teacher" or something. But it's not. It's a very specific relationship. He is the teacher of YOUR teacher, and use of the title depends on YOUR specific relationship with him.

I currently train with my sigung. He taught my teacher, and he agreed to let me train with his group of disciples, tho I have not been elevated to the level of disciple myself. His disciples call him Sifu, and I call him Sigung.

 

[Xue Sheng]

I currently train with my sigung. He taught my teacher, and he agreed to let me train with his group of disciples, tho I have not been elevated to the level of disciple myself. His disciples call him Sifu, and I call him Sigung.

As it should be.

So far in my sifu's taiji class students have tried to call him Grand master, which he put a stop too immediately and one tried calling him sigung to which he laughed and said he was not their sigung. But then another student talking with him was referring to Yang Chengfu as Sigung Yang and he thought that was pretty funny too

My Sanda Sifu didn't even want to be called Sifu so I am not sure how he would handle sigung

Sifu is your teacher and sigung is your teacher's teacher that is all.

 

[clfsean]

Hi Charles,

I am sorry, but you are absolutely wrong about this. Sifu is YOUR teacher. Sigung is your TEACHER'S teacher.

To use the title of sigung in a general way just does not make sense. You are literally calling him, "Hey, My Teacher's Teacher..."

If he is your teacher, then he is Sifu. Period. It does not matter what level of rank he may have been awarded.

If you have students of your own, then to your students, he is Sigung.

Word... simple... word.

 

[Tensei85]

Well this is a really old thread but for what it's worth. I am Sifu Scotts head student at the moment. And I have to say he is a very intellegent and well versed martial artist. All of the things he teaches he is certified to teach. most of it comes from master futong( need to cheak spelling) including CLCKF(8 animals),CLC chin-na, taping and intercepting, Lung lum pa(black dragon), Shuai Chiao. And Sifu has also been accepted as a deciple of Proffessor Husing liu that is where our sun da comes from. He has also traind with Master Randy Lee- wing chun and tai chi. White Willow Sifu Scott developed himself from all of the Knowledge he has obtained over the last 25 or so years of studying CMA.

Thank You respectfully- Imago Simia (Latin for Phantom Monkey)

Chi Lu Chuan Kung Fu does not equate to 8 Animals, checked his website:

If this is Chi Lu Quan as on website: 少林七路拳 breakdown:
少林 - Shaolin
七 - Qi (not Chi) = 7
路 - Lu (Road) NOT Animal
拳 - Quan (Fist)

How the hell does this equate to Shaolin 8 Animals?????

I'm sorry but if your going to make up your own style & become the G.M. Pubaa of a "supposed" Chinese art than atleast use proper Chinese not a bunch of made up ****!

 

[UNYMA]

I understand completely and agree 100%. Sifu is my teacher, sigung is my teachers' teacher. Case closed. That's why I said it's odd that they do it the way they do. The Kaju folks aren't dumb, I assume they know the translation, I have no idea why they did it.