Kogahakempo.com

[The Kai]

Just an opinion

 

[Jeff Boler]

Jef I'm not on here to be disrespected or talk ill of anyone. If you would like to talk about this style of kempo I welcome your coments.

Actually, I thought it was a legitimate question. I tell you what, here's my recommendation. Ignoring the historical writings of William Durbin, who has a tendancy to leave very important facts out, how about you re-write the history of the system, and include the criminal background of it's headmaster. I think anyone who is looking for a martial arts instructor as the ABSOLUTE RIGHT to know if an instructor has a criminal background, especially if that background includes murder.

I'm not bashing here, but this is the one reason that I left the instruction of William Durbin. For years, he misled his students as to the true identity of Nimr Hassan, and his background. Deception is deception, period. If you want your instructor to be considered legitimate, be honest, and tell the whole story..

 

[The Kai]

Wow disclosing that nuggett would pretty much stop any chance for standing with his students of the general martial arts populance. Having Durbin rewrite his story is really a desprete attempt to paint over the tarnish!!
IMHO-you cannot talk about Nimr hassan without taking into account the glaring facts of his past

 

[Jeff Boler]

Well I completely believe in the ability to re-habilitate. I think he could, and even has, made positive change, and is now a positive aspect in the community. However, I think to intentionally withold that information is wrong.

For years, I was always led to believe (by Durbin) that Terry Lee and Nimr Hassan were two differently people. Again, this is wrong. Durbin intentionally withheld the information, due to the fact that Hassan was present with a 5th dan and the title of "Hanshi", after their first meeting.

As a parent....if I were to learn of an instructors past criminal history, years after allowing my child to study under him, I would be furious.

 

[gavarn]

Jeff I understand how you feel but Hassan has never tryed to hide who he is. I nor he cannot be responsible for what Mr. Durbin does. We are in two different states. I knew Hassan's history as does every student that trains with him. Again I say his history is just that history. I am living in the here and now and I am interested in his system of martial arts and not something that happened over 30 years ago. If Mr. Durbin mislead you I am truly sorry to hear that but it was not done by this Ryu. Jeff why don't you try talking with Hassan sometime and learn who he is first hand. Their is no doubt in my mind that he is a good man and he has something good, true and valuble to contribute to the Kempo community as a whole. The history of the Mitose family system will always be full of hearsay stories and the only person alive that can tell anyone the truth is him. Have I ever questioned him about it, yes I have and I am comfortable with what I know and perhaps one day (if he feels it nessary ) He will share it with everyone but right now we are consentrating on this system of which I wish everyone would look at for what it is and not the characters from it's past.Thank you for your time...

 

[koga ha]

Jeff I understand how you feel but Hassan has never tryed to hide who he is. I nor he cannot be responsible for what Mr. Durbin does. We are in two different states. I knew Hassan's history as does every student that trains with him. Again I say his history is just that history. I am living in the here and now and I am interested in his system of martial arts and not something that happened over 30 years ago. If Mr. Durbin mislead you I am truly sorry to hear that but it was not done by this Ryu. Jeff why don't you try talking with Hassan sometime and learn who he is first hand. Their is no doubt in my mind that he is a good man and he has something good, true and valuble to contribute to the Kempo community as a whole. The history of the Mitose family system will always be full of hearsay stories and the only person alive that can tell anyone the truth is him. Have I ever questioned him about it, yes I have and I am comfortable with what I know and perhaps one day (if he feels it nessary ) He will share it with everyone but right now we are consentrating on this system of which I wish everyone would look at for what it is and not the characters from it's past.Thank you for your time...

well put gavarn...

 

[rmcrobertson]

Did Terry Lee/Nimr Hassan climb in two old people's window late one night with a screwdriver and kill one and injure the other, or did he not?

 

[gavarn]

no

 

[Ray]

Re: the hakama, if you're not going to wear one on the street {where self-defense is critical} then what's the point in training in one?

 

[rmcrobertson]

OK, so what actually happened? What exactly did Terry Lee/Nimr Hassan do?And why do people report this everywhere, including guys like Kensho Furuya, who says that a) he met Mr. Mitose several times, b) read about the murder in the Japanese-language papers for the nine weeks of the trial?

 

[koga ha]

Re: the hakama, if you're not going to wear one on the street {where self-defense is critical} then what's the point in training in one?

do you walk around in your gi?

 

[The Kai]

i suggest that you read the court transcript!

 

[koga ha]

OK, so what actually happened? What exactly did Terry Lee/Nimr Hassan do?And why do people report this everywhere, including guys like Kensho Furuya, who says that a) he met Mr. Mitose several times, b) read about the murder in the Japanese-language papers for the nine weeks of the trial?

if you really want to know, i think the person to ask would be hassan.

every report i ever read was one-sided because hassan has kept quiet about the incident; however, it seems to me that people report this everywhere without reporting the entire story.

so, how do you make a judgement with only half a story?

i don't know mr. furuya and his conservations with mitose. did mr. furuya say what the conservations entailed?

as for the japanese-language papers...well, people argue over the translation of keMpo and keNpo, so i can imagine the translation of numerous documents into japanese would be crazy.

 

[The Kai]

I can't imagine the court transcripts being innaccurate, As far as the japanese newspapers there in neither a "N" or "M" in screwdriver, stab, or kill. there is, however, an "M" in murder-when someones is killed you know what it is. Again read the court transcripts

 

[rmcrobertson]

Oh, come ON.

The transcripts, and the news reports, and the various anecdotal mentions, say that Terry Lee/Nimr Hassan climbed in a bedroom window and assaulted two old people over money that may, or may not, have been owed to James M. Mitose.

They say that one died, one lived. They say that Terry Lee/Nimr Hassan plea-bargained his way down to three years in jail, in exchange for testifying against James M. Mitose.

Please detail in what way that information is inaccurate. Please document your sources, explaining where you're getting the better information from.

It's simple: just explain. Personally, I'd be delighted if this horrible story weren't true.

But it apparently is true.

 

[koga ha]

I can't imagine the court transcripts being innaccurate, As far as the japanese newspapers there in neither a "N" or "M" in screwdriver, stab, or kill. there is, however, an "M" in murder-when someones is killed you know what it is. Again read the court transcripts

i guess the point i was trying to make was translating into another languague my not carry the same meaning. for example: (this is old, but makes the point) u.s. markets a car called "nova", you know a star, in mexico. well, in mexican "nova" means can't go. needless to say the car did not sell to well.

in regard to the transcripts, john bishop extended the offer to send me the transcripts on cd; however, i'm still waiting. i'm sure the cd is not a high-priority item on his list of things to do, so when he gets around to it i'll take a look.

 

[Ray]

do you walk around in your gi?

The fundamental difference between my gi and my street clothes is the diamond shaped gusset in the crotch; and I normally wear shoes on the street. Other than practicing high-kicks in the studio, I won't be doing anything in my gi that I can't do in street clothes.

If your hakama hides your foot patterns, then they aren't going to be very well hidden on the street unless you wear a fashionable, long dress.

 

[Ray]

if you really want to know, i think the person to ask would be hassan.

It's been my experience that the offender is usually the least reliable person to ask.

every report i ever read was one-sided because hassan has kept quiet about the incident; however, it seems to me that people report this everywhere without reporting the entire story.

There's an old saying about "having your day in court." If the accounts are true, then Terry Lee had his opportunity for "his day in court."

so, how do you make a judgement with only half a story?

You'll have to ask the criminal justice system how judgements are made with half of a story. But I'm fairly positive that Terry Lee did the crime and served some time. I haven't seen anything that says Hassan isn't Lee - but everything I've seen says he is.

I'm not a historian or a researcher, but if you can point to valid documentation that shows otherwise I am willing to change my opinion.

 

[John Bishop]

Did Terry Lee/Nimr Hassan climb in two old people's window late one night with a screwdriver and kill one and injure the other, or did he not?

No, according to his admissions and court testimony, he came in thru a sliding glass door.

 

[John Bishop]

in regard to the transcripts, john bishop extended the offer to send me the transcripts on cd; however, i'm still waiting. i'm sure the cd is not a high-priority item on his list of things to do, so when he gets around to it i'll take a look.

You PM'd your name and address to me as: "Terry Lee", Kansas City, Mo.
So, are you really Terry Lee, or a relative, or is the name just coincidental?
I figured if you were Terry Lee, or Terry Lee Jr. you'd already know the story.