Kinetic Energy

[Dinkydoo]

ESP as one now, then no. Current science see's it as so. No, what I meant was is something like this. As humans we are what we where. However, it is not beyond reason that eventually we will see evolution of the senses. Call it what you will, but I just feel that as a race, we have further to go. There is no science for a human feeling as far as I am concerned. Yeah you can pass out now

There are a lot of cool sensory things that other species can do which would greatly enhance our natural martial arts ability. Not being under any real threat from predators on a daily basis makes further, natural evolution unlikely though.

 

[Transk53]

Our greatest threat is ourselves. That is the predator. Evolution stems from that, but as you say, perhaps in this case unlikely. Humans will be human.

 

[drop bear]

and you named the thread "Kinetic Energy"?

I'm not quite sure what you're getting at (maybe I'm not best placed to answer) but there will be a lot of trade-offs between a much larger fighter against a smaller, more skilled and fitter fighter. I personally don't fancy eating kicks and punches from a 6'5 beginner but being a few years more experienced I'd be confident of being able to get inside without taking too much damage and work from there. There will be similar tradeoffs between an unfit guy with some fundamentals against a fitter opponent who is a complete beginner - although my money would be on the person with a bit of training under thier belt.

It all depends on what we're talking about though. Real street fighting, kickboxing continuous rules, MMA rules....

I might be missing the point youre trying to make entirely!

Edit: I think I understand what you're getting at now - with everything else being equal does having more balance to your body build makeup for being disadvantaged at being the smaller fighter.... If thats what you're getting at then I'm not sure, you'd need to consider a lot of different factors (some of which I've touched upon).

a lot of people get the physics of this wrong. And i am not an expert my self. So kinetic energy is probably good enough for now.

regarding punching power and looking at physics guys discussing this one. There is debate as to what constitutes a skull cracking punch.

force as in the mass times acceleration. Formula is not. Accurate. Mabye pressure is better?

i will hunt down some of the discussions by the guys with degrees on the subject.

it is not like knowing the equation is going to produce more knockouts.

 

[drop bear]

There are a lot of cool sensory things that other species can do which would greatly enhance our natural martial arts ability. Not being under any real threat from predators on a daily basis makes further, natural evolution unlikely though.

reproduction also advances evolution.

 

[Cirdan]

a lot of people get the physics of this wrong. And i am not an expert my self. So kinetic energy is probably good enough for now.

regarding punching power and looking at physics guys discussing this one. There is debate as to what constitutes a skull cracking punch.

force as in the mass times acceleration. Formula is not. Accurate. Mabye pressure is better?

i will hunt down some of the discussions by the guys with degrees on the subject.

it is not like knowing the equation is going to produce more knockouts.

Oh the formula is very accutate and will help you produce more knockouts, if you apply it correctly that is.

Not holding my breath for you to disprove Newton`s laws of motion tho

 

[drop bear]

Oh the formula is very accutate and will help you produce more knockouts, if you apply it correctly that is.

Not holding my breath for you to disprove Newton`s laws of motion tho

was newton talking about punching power?

but i think we are triking to increase timing not power. So my mistake here.

trying to get all Anderson Silva.

if you figure out that one you would be winning.

 

[Cirdan]

Yes Newton was talking about punching power, why would that be a special case?

Can`t see whatever you posted because of filters at work, will have a look later.

 

[drop bear]

Yes Newton was talking about punching power, why would that be a special case?

Can`t see whatever you posted because of filters at work, will have a look later.

Straight Dope The Physics of Punching Someone in the Face - Washington City Paper

and it gets worse from there.

 

[Cirdan]

Straight Dope The Physics of Punching Someone in the Face - Washington City Paper

and it gets worse from there.

Well of course you can divide by contact area if you think that is relevant. F=MA is still the basic formula you work from.

 

[drop bear]

Well of course you can divide by contact area if you think that is relevant. F=MA is still the basic formula you work from.

so if i punch you with both hands flat on the chest with more force or if i punch you with one closed fist in the face with more pressure.

which equation do i use?

is it my body mass or just my hand mass?
what if i leave my punch on the target or pull it back?
what if i punch through the target or on the target?

 

[Cirdan]

so if i punch you with both hands flat on the chest with more force or if i punch you with one closed fist in the face with more pressure.

which equation do i use?

is it my body mass or just my hand mass?
what if i leave my punch on the target or pull it back?
what if i punch through the target or on the target?

Not sure what to make of the first line...

As for the rest you just need to use the correct numbers relevant to what actually happens. Like I said, apply the formula.

 

[drop bear]

Not sure what to make of the first line...

As for the rest you just need to use the correct numbers relevant to what actually happens. Like I said, apply the formula.

ok so force equals mass times acceleration. How do i fit the surface area i am hitting with into that equation?

 

[Cirdan]

ok so force equals mass times acceleration. How do i fit the surface area i am hitting with into that equation?

p=F/A

Refer to your earlier link about pressure and getting punched in the face.

 

[drop bear]

p=F/A

Refer to your earlier link about pressure and getting punched in the face.

ok so that is the correct equation to use instead of the f=m•a.

does punching through the target matter?

 

[Dinkydoo]

reproduction also advances evolution.

It does, but I'd imagine that it's much more of a genetic lottery as opposed to the same damn painful thing happening to you every time you go to the shop; after a few hundred years, if we hadnt used our intellect to find an alternative, we'd likely develop a natural defence mechanism against the reoccurring threat.

Yes Newton was talking about punching power, why would that be a special case?

Can`t see whatever you posted because of filters at work, will have a look later.

Problem with this arguement is that Newtons law is far too abstract to be applied effectively to striking in martial arts. Sure, the force generated will be in part measured by the basic equation outlined but we also need to consider the energy required to move objects (arms/legs) of varying size - hence why many believe the kinetic energy formula is more appropriate.

Finally, in terms of relevance to the martial arts, an effective punch is derived from the result the puncher is aiming for - whether that be in sport or self defence. So, we can go on and on about applying the physics of how much force a punch can generate when actually 'how hard' someone actually hits is usually determined, in practice, by the pain felt by the receiver; which is something else entirely.

 

[drop bear]

It does, but I'd imagine that it's much more of a genetic lottery as opposed to the same damn painful thing happening to you every time you go to the shop; after a few hundred years, if we hadnt used our intellect to find an alternative, we'd likely develop a natural defence mechanism against the reoccurring threat.

Problem with this arguement is that Newtons law is far too abstract to be applied effectively to striking in martial arts. Sure, the force generated will be in part measured by the basic equation outlined but we also need to consider the energy required to move objects (arms/legs) of varying size - hence why many believe the kinetic energy formula is more appropriate.

Finally, in terms of relevance to the martial arts, an effective punch is derived from the result the puncher is aiming for - whether that be in sport or self defence. So, we can go on and on about applying the physics of how much force a punch can generate when actually 'how hard' someone actually hits is usually determined, in practice, by the pain felt by the receiver; which is something else entirely.

yeah?

this is where it gets a bit sketchy though. I find when we discuss survival of the fittest people think it is survival of the coolest.

so say you idea of the bog monster that jumps out at us every time we go to the shops.

evolution steps in and we all develop wolverine claws.

but evolution may not work that way at all. We might become weaker but breed quicker.

or any number of uncool survival abilities.

 

[Cirdan]

Problem with this arguement is that Newtons law is far too abstract to be applied effectively to striking in martial arts. Sure, the force generated will be in part measured by the basic equation outlined but we also need to consider the energy required to move objects (arms/legs) of varying size - hence why many believe the kinetic energy formula is more appropriate.

Finally, in terms of relevance to the martial arts, an effective punch is derived from the result the puncher is aiming for - whether that be in sport or self defence. So, we can go on and on about applying the physics of how much force a punch can generate when actually 'how hard' someone actually hits is usually determined, in practice, by the pain felt by the receiver; which is something else entirely.

I have no problem applying it. Simply put your whole body into the strike and maximize acceleration at impact. Further do that with proper movement and structure so no energy is wasted.

 

[Rich Parsons]

p=F/A

Refer to your earlier link about pressure and getting punched in the face.

Work Energy and Power


Also, Head shots versus body shots, one needs to look at the brain moving in the impacts and concussions and swelling that cause people to go down that many consider to be more "powerful" or more "forceful" or ...

 

[drop bear]

I have no problem applying it. Simply put your whole body into the strike and maximize acceleration at impact. Further do that with proper movement and structure so no energy is wasted.

so you don't punch through the target. Because it will decrease tha acceleration.

 

[Cirdan]

so you don't punch through the target. Because it will decrease tha acceleration.

Is that a question? I sometimes find your posts hard to reply to because of lack of structure and punctuation.

You need to deliver the strike of course, it can be done both with a slapping punch/kick or a pushing one. However once we get into more detail this will probably be a mess judging by any number of threads here and since I don`t enjoy trainwrecks too much I am not going down that road.