Kidnapping after the Earthquake

[xJOHNx]

Just read this:
http://abcnews.go.com/WN/HaitiEarth...rged-child-trafficking-haiti/story?id=9712436

Although I can sympathise for wanting to help, this is plain wrong.
Some children were not even orphans. What's wrong with them lot?

 

[Flea]

I was thinking much the same thing.

Several years ago my uncle took his (interracially adopted) son up from Oregon to BC for a fishing trip. They were detained for several hours at the border and interrogated separately, despite having passports with the same name. Finally after checking for any criminal history or warrants on my uncle, and a lengthy phone conversation with my aunt, they sent them on their way. Outrageous and horribly inconvenient, but the need for such policies should be obvious. It's not just the possibility of a stranger kidnapping, but also parental kidnapping in bitter divorces. And of course the Stockholm Syndrome should always be taken into account in these situations too.

The trip has since become a cherished annual father-son tradition, but now they know exactly what paperwork to bring. I'm glad these procedures exist.

Were these Baptists planning to traffic children? I highly doubt it. I think they were just jaw-droppingly naive, or at worst, arrogant enough to think their nationality made them exempt from another country's laws. I'm grateful to see them prosecuted all the same. Not only is it a good caution to other groups working in Haiti, but also to the adoption industry in general.

 

[MA-Caver]

Just read this:
http://abcnews.go.com/WN/HaitiEarth...rged-child-trafficking-haiti/story?id=9712436

Although I can sympathise for wanting to help, this is plain wrong.
Some children were not even orphans. What's wrong with them lot?

In a word... Greed.

 

[blindsage]

Supreme arrogance.

When asked about the charges against them, several in the group simply responded to ABC News, "Philippians 1." The first chapter of Philippians chronicles when the apostle Paul was in prison for preaching the gospel.

Faith fail.

 

[Omar B]

I thought it was funny. The kids have parents, the news even said a few of them told the people they have families and didn't want to go. Anywhere in the world it's kidnapping, belief in god does not make it any less so.

 

[Flea]

Supreme arrogance.

Faith fail.

Faith, common sense, and conscience fail. And a few others I'm sure to think of later.

 

[Bruno@MT]

Whether it was blind naivety, supreme arrogance or criminal intent doesn't really matter. It was wrong and they should be punished.

Especially after there were already reports of child abductions, I want the haitian government to be vigilant when it comes to what people are doing with children.

Throw the book at them I say.

 

[CanuckMA]

Aren't there enough legitimate orphans in that country?

 

[Blade96]

I just heard this on tv this morning. Ewwww.

 

[Jenny_in_Chico]

"We came here simply to help these children and we went to the border based on the approval of the Dominican government to take the children into the Dominican Republic and the pastor entrusting these precious children to our care because his orphanage collapsed and his churches collapsed, and he had nowhere for these children to go," the group's spokeswoman, Laura Silsby said.

I think that this situation is probably more complicated then we realize. The entire infrastructure of Haiti is in shambles. If children have become separated from their parents, and are in the care of a Haitian church, and that church cannot house, feed or clothe them or the legitimate orphans associated with the church, then it is possible that the only sensible and realistic solution was to move them to DR. Paperwork is never, ever complete in 3rd world countries, and border crossings are dangerous and scary in the best of circumstances (I speak from experience). I doubt that this American based church had any foul play in mind when they agreed to transport these kids.

 

[Omar B]

I think you give them too much credit Jenny. Anywhere else in the world taking kids across borders is a big deal. After disasters the jackals and vultures start sniffing around. It's not their call to decide on what child to take from where.

And as to paperwork in 3rd world countries. I was born in a third world country, and on no day of the week would it have been ok to take me from my home and family "for my own good" and we have lots of earthquakes and hurricanes in Jamaica.

 

[Jenny_in_Chico]

I think you give them too much credit Jenny. Anywhere else in the world taking kids across borders is a big deal. After disasters the jackals and vultures start sniffing around. It's not their call to decide on what child to take from where.

And as to paperwork in 3rd world countries. I was born in a third world country, and on no day of the week would it have been ok to take me from my home and family "for my own good" and we have lots of earthquakes and hurricanes in Jamaica.

Maybe so. I just think that it is a complicated situation, the people were naive, and their behavior was perceived in the worst possible light. I don't think that their intention was to traffic in children.

 

[Omar B]

It doesn't matter what their intentions are, it's what they did. The worst harm can come from the best of intentions. I don't care how good or religious or christian or whatever other cloak of piety and righteousness they wish to wrap themselves in, removing children from their families and homeland however you look at it is wrong and they should go to jail.

If they get off, child trafficers should start using whatever defense they did.

 

[Jenny_in_Chico]

It doesn't matter what their intentions are, it's what they did. The worst harm can come from the best of intentions. I don't care how good or religious or christian or whatever other cloak of piety and righteousness they wish to wrap themselves in, removing children from their families and homeland however you look at it is wrong and they should go to jail.

If they get off, child trafficers should start using whatever defense they did.

If the choice was between letting the children starve in Haiti, or eat in DR, what would you do?

 

[Omar B]

As I said, the worst harm can come of the best intentions. So if you wish to continue arguing for kidnapping then fine. Yay, kidnapping! Hungry kids? Lets kidnap them!

What would I do? Make a concerted effort to aid the relief efforts in Haiti, like every rational aid organization is doing. My wife's mother and 10 year old brother are in Haiti, we are going through the right and legal channels to get them help so this is an issue close to my heart.

 

[Jenny_in_Chico]

As I said, the worst harm can come of the best intentions. So if you wish to continue arguing for kidnapping then fine. Yay, kidnapping! Hungry kids? Lets kidnap them!

What would I do? Make a concerted effort to aid the relief efforts in Haiti, like every rational aid organization is doing. My wife's mother and 10 year old brother are in Haiti, we are going through the right and legal channels to get them help so this is an issue close to my heart.

Yay, kidnapping! LOL! Omar, you are truly a funny guy!

Of course I believe that relief efforts should be supported. I think that this was the goal of the church group. But perhaps they found themselves in a situation where relief agencies were not around, and action needed to be taken immediately?

 

[Omar B]

You're right. Rather than have them and their congregation (since it is a church group) gather up what food and supplies they can send, they instead opt for sending over a group, rent a bus, round up 33 kids and make the 70 mile drive from the city towards another country. Totally rational, I don't know about you, but every time I see a hungry kid my first reaction is to rip him from his family and run for the border. It's not as if anyone involved with the church has ever done anything objectionable in the name of god.

As I said, sex traffickers could learn a thing or two from these people. I actually do have people who are related to me there and I'm having a hard time getting them help or getting them here. Maybe I should illegally traffic them across a border too.

 

[Bruno@MT]

If the choice was between letting the children starve in Haiti, or eat in DR, what would you do?

That's a false choice.
There is always option number 3: set up a small supply chain to feed those kids and rebuild their homes. Involve the local pastor and other people to prove that you have good intentions. Taking kids across the border, away from their family (sometimes even against their wishes) is never a good idea. They're lucky they didn't get shot on the spot.

If they really wanted to help, they should have stayed and helped. Or affiliated with an organization which has experience with doing things in 3d world countries. Or simply donated their money to a reputable aid effort instead of wasting it by actually going there. Or met up with one of those organizations and bought whatever they needed, or...

I have 2 adoptive sisters. I have a bit of an idea about the paperwork involved in taking kids across a border. There is a huge amount of paperwork, examination and other hoo-ha involved, precisely to avoid those kids ending up worse than where they started.

Just because there has been a disaster in haiti does not turn the country in a 'free for all' children shopping mall.

 

[dbell]

If the choice was between letting the children starve in Haiti, or eat in DR, what would you do?

I would spend the money they have going to the Luxury Resort in DR on building a camp for the kids and families IN Haiti...

While I don't think everyone in the group had ill intent (so to say), I do think that at least the leaders of the group and the Haitians with them did. This was by no means a legal move on their behalf and the Christian faith does not support this kind of action either.

If they were there to help the kids, the help would have been in the form of helping them find shelter in country, bring food and water to them, and helping them via education there until the local, international, and US laws were followed.

This was not a smart move on their behalf, and some of them, if not all of them, should be prosecuted.

 

[Tez3]

Just seen them on the news being interviewed by a Brit reporter, their arrogance is astounding!
The reporter also said that they may well be tried in America as the Haitian judicial system is in tatters. Am I right in thinking that American law regards kidnapping as a very serious crime?