Kicking and self defense

[searcher]

The opinions to which you are referring are most likely from people in styles that are not particularly kick oriented or are by people who are not very good at kicking. It all comes down to how much you train them and how confident you are in them. The situation is going to dictate when/if a kick gets used or not. And the target they will get used on.


I am just rambling, I have a million thoughts running through my head and I am having trouble sorting them out.

 

[AoCAdam]

I believe practical front kicks and roundhouse kicks are the best for self defense on the street. Fancy kicks may work but put you at a lot more risk.

 

[JadeDragon3]

For real self defense purposes I would say that kicking above the waist is a no no. I suggest keeping your kicks low, no higher than floating ribs. Otherwise you leave yourself to exposed.

 

[myusername]

Why would you want to kick them while their on the floor, if you have them down, obviously you have ended or gained the upperhand.

In my jujutsu class we are trained to demonstrate finishing any technique that results in your attacker lying on the floor with a stomping action attacking the opponents ankle as we are fleeing. This is to be used in circumstances where you are facing or could potentially be facing multiple opponents. It is a good way of preventing your attacker from following you and discouraging any onlookers from thinking they might stand a chance against you.

Additionally just because your opponent is down does not mean they don't have any fight in them. If they are pissed off, want to harm me and in the process of getting up to get me then I have no problem with the idea of giving them a good kick or stomp whilst they are on the floor.

As for the legal implications, in England, if you can prove that you did this as you were in genuine fear of your life and that you honestly felt that the attacker or his friends would have pursued you, caught you and harmed you then you should be ok. That is my understanding anyway but I wouldn't hang around to find out.

 

[BLACK LION]

Striking a target with the leg or foot is definately a viable option no matter what. Now this is dependent on targeting. I never kick above the waist . I only use the knee, thigh, shin, heel or the pivot portion under the toes. I never use the toes, instep, top of foot or outside of foot. why? there are 160 bones in the foot and the possibilites of breaking something is too great.
I only target nerves or joints from the pelvis down, nothing else.
Dont get me wrong, I can kick most people in thier face before they knew it with an array of different kicks but its not practical. Thai kicks to the side of the legs are cool but dangerous.... a well seasoned person will simply turn the knee outward and catch a nerve on your leg and poof you are now hobbling and off balance and in trouble... I never kick on a pivot unless I am stepping into thier base with my own and there is always some sort of rotation. So if I kick and miss I should still be where they were and same if I connect. There is no elasticity at all...once the strike hits its mark its not retrated on bit... instead its penetrated through and the integrity f the base is still intact...

Kicks and stomps are really great when they are down because all the upper body options open up... even then I only kick vital targets like the throat-kidneys-liver-spleen-eyes-ears-base of the skull-spine etc....

 

[sgtmac_46]

I believe practical front kicks and roundhouse kicks are the best for self defense on the street. Fancy kicks may work but put you at a lot more risk.

Exactly!

I believe I heard Marc 'Crafty Dog' Denny refer to those techniques as 'Plan B Violations'.......I like the term, so I stole it.

Basically a Plan B violation is a technique or tactic that, if it doesn't work, puts you in a worse position for having tried it.....

 

[kempo]

My feet from their waist down, my hands from their waist up. Legs can be used many ways, sweeps, take downs, stomps, leg blocking, leg checking and bumping. I believe picking up the leg for self defense can be dangerous, but as mentioned above, very useful, and has it’s place. Most of the kicks done in sparring matches are not useful in a street confrontation, and some of the foot and leg maneuvers for the street, as mentioned above, are not safe or practical while sparring. Some of the best kicks, should be used, to disable your attackers legs, and take away his mobility. When hands and feet are working in harmony it is unbeatable indeed. :asian:

X2, I use my feet from the waist down and my hands from the waist up.

 

[BrandonLucas]

I'm used to throwing higher kicks, and know when to throw them and when not to throw them. They can be very effective, and often a fight ender, but it's all about timing, positioning, and circumstances.

I'm not suggesting that you stand a normal fighting distance away from someone and throw a head-level round house kick, and expect that to drop them like a tree. More often than not, those kicks will be blocked.

I'm a bigger guy, so it works for me, since most people don't expect me to come from the angles that I attack from. The best place that I've found to throw a head-level kick is when you are working inside on your opponent...not necessarily in a clinch position, but you are close enough to actually be in their "hoola-hoop" so to speak. Throwing a well placed axe kick is really effective, especially when the other person is watching for you to throw hand techniques. When you're in close, you can't see the legs moving very well, unless you're looking at them.

Again, though, it is situational. There are fights that you shouldn't throw high kicks in, and there are fights that you shouldn't throw kicks at all.

 

[Aiki Lee]

As everyone here has said, low kicks are your best bet. But don't forget that just about any technique can be used based on the circumstances. By the way, I've heard kicking an attacker on the floor will bring about some serious consequences from the law. (dunno why you would if he's already on the floor...) ?

If he is not activly trying to cause you real harm, then such actions would be immoral.

Does anyone know what would happen if one were to kick an attacker in the head and cause brain damage, or kick them in the legs and permanently break something? Seems like there would be grounds for a lawsuit, even in a pure SD situation. Any thoughts on that?

The lawsuit thing would likely be a problem only if you couldn't prove your life was in serious danger. If the attacker wasn't dead, I'd consider him lucky.

 

[bowser666]

I am going to jsut agree that kicking is quite effective in a street situation. granted they need to be low risk techniques and kicks that you have practiced 10's of thousands of times. Go with simple yet fast and effective techniques, nothing flashy ( spin kicks, kicks to the head etc......)

 

[BLACK LION]

I see words like lawsuit and fighting and such... If it is not true danger then there is no reason to lift a finger to the other or others... It is our job as professionals to understand whats avoidable and whats not...

Fighting still bears social and moral rules becuase even an argument can be considered a fight... I am referring to combat... not a wartime battlefield but in the actual instance of force-agression-or violence... All Fights can always be avoided its just a matter of ego... violence can be avoided sometimes depending on if it started with a fight or some sort of social interaction.... then there is violence that cannot be avoided...this is combat..this is where you act and thrive... only then...

at that moment in time there are no legalities or moralitites... just you and flesh and bone that must be destroyed..

"A kick to the head to end a fight" is tip toeing around glass while sprinkled with pixie dust... its fantastical to conceive but impractical in actuality... the only time I would kick to the head to end anything is to end a life and it would be after they were already down from other injuries affectuated previously... This is why I do not "Fight" people... and I dont let anyone drag me into a ''fight"... I act when my well being or the well being of another human is threatened and at that moment there is no legality or morality... you have to be perceptive, professional and assertive enough to know the difference and act accordingly.

If you decide to kick someone in the neck becuase they swung at you or cut you off or gave you the finger then thats your baggage... if you let someone coax you into a pissing match becuase he grabbed you womans **** and you haul off and kick him in his sternum and give him a coronary then thats your baggage... if you break someones knee cap becuase they shoved you and punched you in the nose then thats your baggage...

fighting is socializing and that includes "kicking, punching, wrestling or verbal threats and what have you... this brings along many legal and moral strings and pitfalls...


self preservation-protection or survival is just that... and in that realm anything goes... there are no legal or moral boundaries



I mean no disrespect, spit or sarcasm to any of you all and I hope you understand that these are merely my own convictions

 

[ares]

I have used kicks in a fight. When I do kick, I tend to stay away from round and high kicks and use direct kicks like front or blade. I've always used them low from the knee down because I find taking away their balance opens them up to a number of other attacks. someone throws a punch a quick front kick to the knee will change things a bit. As mentioned in other posts, a well placed foot stomp is useful and will hurt like the dickens. If you are being charged, then a blade kick to the side of the knee will end things pretty quick.

 

[Carol]

Striking a target with the leg or foot is definately a viable option no matter what. Now this is dependent on targeting. I never kick above the waist . I only use the knee, thigh, shin, heel or the pivot portion under the toes. I never use the toes, instep, top of foot or outside of foot. why? there are 160 bones in the foot and the possibilites of breaking something is too great.
I only target nerves or joints from the pelvis down, nothing else.
Dont get me wrong, I can kick most people in thier face before they knew it with an array of different kicks but its not practical. Thai kicks to the side of the legs are cool but dangerous.... a well seasoned person will simply turn the knee outward and catch a nerve on your leg and poof you are now hobbling and off balance and in trouble... I never kick on a pivot unless I am stepping into thier base with my own and there is always some sort of rotation. So if I kick and miss I should still be where they were and same if I connect. There is no elasticity at all...once the strike hits its mark its not retrated on bit... instead its penetrated through and the integrity f the base is still intact...

Kicks and stomps are really great when they are down because all the upper body options open up... even then I only kick vital targets like the throat-kidneys-liver-spleen-eyes-ears-base of the skull-spine etc....

Nice input. I like the way you think :asian:

 

[chinto]

I see words like lawsuit and fighting and such... If it is not true danger then there is no reason to lift a finger to the other or others... It is our job as professionals to understand whats avoidable and whats not...

Fighting still bears social and moral rules becuase even an argument can be considered a fight... I am referring to combat... not a wartime battlefield but in the actual instance of force-agression-or violence... All Fights can always be avoided its just a matter of ego... violence can be avoided sometimes depending on if it started with a fight or some sort of social interaction.... then there is violence that cannot be avoided...this is combat..this is where you act and thrive... only then...

at that moment in time there are no legalities or moralitites... just you and flesh and bone that must be destroyed..

"A kick to the head to end a fight" is tip toeing around glass while sprinkled with pixie dust... its fantastical to conceive but impractical in actuality... the only time I would kick to the head to end anything is to end a life and it would be after they were already down from other injuries affectuated previously... This is why I do not "Fight" people... and I dont let anyone drag me into a ''fight"... I act when my well being or the well being of another human is threatened and at that moment there is no legality or morality... you have to be perceptive, professional and assertive enough to know the difference and act accordingly.

If you decide to kick someone in the neck becuase they swung at you or cut you off or gave you the finger then thats your baggage... if you let someone coax you into a pissing match becuase he grabbed you womans **** and you haul off and kick him in his sternum and give him a coronary then thats your baggage... if you break someones knee cap becuase they shoved you and punched you in the nose then thats your baggage...

fighting is socializing and that includes "kicking, punching, wrestling or verbal threats and what have you... this brings along many legal and moral strings and pitfalls...


self preservation-protection or survival is just that... and in that realm anything goes... there are no legal or moral boundaries



I mean no disrespect, spit or sarcasm to any of you all and I hope you understand that these are merely my own convictions

Look if you are in a self defense situation, I would suggest you leave any compunction and preferably most emotion out of it. Dispatch the attacker/attackers as quickly as possible, in such a way as the threat is neutralized and you are unharmed.
Any fight on the street is by definition a SURVIVAL situation. do what you have to do to survive! there are no rules, lights, mats or ref!

So any way you decide what you will and will not do, and how far you go in the situation. you run on gut instinct that this is or is not a life threatening situation. By the way You will also LIVE and DIE by that judgment and your choices that are based on it.

 

[Ronin74]

Sorry if I'm repeating someone else's opinion.

I think kicking for self-defense has it's place, just like any other technique. It all depends on the situation and how practical it would be to execute a kick. In regards to high kicks, sure they're typically not ideal to use. However, it doesn't render them as useless and not worth practicing.

For myself, kicking is one of my strengths, so I do work high kicks. However, when it came to working self-defense techniques, I don't ever recall throwing anything higher than waist or chest high (and that was only if the opening was there).

 

[kyosa]

Kicks can be very useful on the street......i've seen MT style kicks used to great effect against opponents in the street (used them myself a couple times......snap kicks to the groin and MT leg kicks to the thigh and calves).

1. Those kicks should be targeted to points below the opponents waist,

2. Should generally be kicks that don't throw your too far off balance.

3. They should be quick kicks that are pulled back quickly to avoid being grabbed or tripped.

4. You should ALWAYS be aware of the surfaces your are standing on (asphalt, gravel, mud, etc, etc) and how they will effect your balance when kicking.

5. They should be set up with other techniques so that your opponent doesn't know the kick is coming, and adjust for it, or attempt to catch it.

One should also remember that knee strikes are very effective on the street as they are in the ring.

I couldn't agree more! This is the primer in "street kicking" in my opinion. Keep it simple, strike hard and fast and be deceptive. Taking your opponents legs out takes his focus off protecting his head, takes away his ability to move and there is a surprise factor. Get his focus high-strike low. Get his focus low-strike high. In over 22 years of Law Enforcement I have been kicked once and had my foot stomped once. Otherwise most attacks have been punches of the head.

Most street fighters are unable to kick effectively and most dont have the ability to defend against low kicks. And never underestimate the kick to the groin. It's the one shot that if your opponent can feel pain will get his attention very quickly and can end the fight (beware this can cause serious, permanent injury and even death).

Taking kicks out of your self defense arsenal would be like taking head punching out of your arsenal-why would you want to limit yourself and take a very effective tool out of your "bag of tricks?"

 

[kyosa]

Exactly!

I believe I heard Marc 'Crafty Dog' Denny refer to those techniques as 'Plan B Violations'.......I like the term, so I stole it.

Basically a Plan B violation is a technique or tactic that, if it doesn't work, puts you in a worse position for having tried it.....

First time I have heard of a "plan B violation" but I like it and think I will using this term in my classes. Thanks

 

[jks9199]

I don't trust kicks to the groin, unless you can reliable smash through and break the pelvis. I've seen too many cases of guys taking solid shots and keeping going. They may crumple down later -- but drugs, or just plain adrenaline & mad can get 'em through it. Like I said -- if I am kicking to the groin, it's either a distracter and something else is on the way, or my aim isn't the groin, it's to destroy the pelvis to take away their mobility.

 

[teekin]

I have used kicks in a fight. When I do kick, I tend to stay away from round and high kicks and use direct kicks like front or blade. I've always used them low from the knee down because I find taking away their balance opens them up to a number of other attacks. someone throws a punch a quick front kick to the knee will change things a bit. As mentioned in other posts, a well placed foot stomp is useful and will hurt like the dickens. If you are being charged, then a blade kick to the side of the knee will end things pretty quick.

Blade Kick ? Could you please post a good vidy link? Much thanks
lori

 

[chinto]

I don't trust kicks to the groin, unless you can reliable smash through and break the pelvis. I've seen too many cases of guys taking solid shots and keeping going. They may crumple down later -- but drugs, or just plain adrenaline & mad can get 'em through it. Like I said -- if I am kicking to the groin, it's either a distracter and something else is on the way, or my aim isn't the groin, it's to destroy the pelvis to take away their mobility.

yep if i kick groin i will just about guarantee that real soon i will kick the pubic synthesis if they are not down already. but i will kick knees and ankles and insteps and shins till that opening for groin and pubic synthesis is open.