Kettle bells in Karate

[opr1945]

I saw a video where they recommended using kettle bells to increase power in striking. They started by grabbing the bell by the handle with the ball resting on shoulder with arm cocked to punch, then punching and pulling the fist forward with the ball of the bell then flying forward when the hand stops forward motion. Repeat.

Would same effect be achieved with a dumbell, obviously without the swing forward of the ball.

Opinion anyone?

 

[isshinryuronin]

Seems like more harm (to shoulder and elbow) than good would come out of this. Some arm weight training is beneficial in developing power, but most of karate power comes from hip, core, general biomechanics and coordinating body movement. I would spend time on these areas of development to increase striking power.

I work with weights 1 hr, 3X's/wk. I do incline sit-ups, leg lifts, back extensions, leg press, side bends with dumbell and twisting with pulley weights - core work which takes about a third of my gym time. Aside from providing a solid platform for hand techniques these exercises are useful in close in grappling and takedowns.

 

[Kung Fu Wang]

Would same effect be achieved with a dumbell,

- The kettle bells is better than the dumbbell because you can train more on your wrist.
- The square bag with BB is better than the kettle bells because you can train more on your fingers (0.00 - 0.07 in the 1st video).

The stone lock is similar to kettle bells. Because it's flat on both ends, you can train more drills with it.

 

[opr1945]

Thanks for videos.

 

[Hot Lunch]

The best thing to increase your punching power would actually be the cable machine. Set the height of the pulley to your shoulder level, put a one-hand grip on it, and punch as you normally would (including using your hips to move the weight). Be sure to set the weight high enough so that you can do no more than 12 reps.

 

[drop bear]

Just get functionally stronger and your punches will get stronger.

Don't fart around too much with these sort of esoteric strength movements. It is not as efficient.

 

[Gyakuto]

I think these sorts of exercise are an extension of traditional Okinawa junbi /hondo undō. The advent of modern progressive weight training has far out stretched these old methods.

However, I do like the muscle specificity of Hot Lunch’s suggestion.

 

[Hot Lunch]

However, I do like the muscle specificity of Hot Lunch’s suggestion.

I don't do these types of exercises myself. I once had a copy of Jesse Enkamp's "Strength Training For Karate," and this was one of the exercises listed.

I think these types of exercises are good for high level kata competitors and such, but we have to understand that karate in a real fight is not going to be this perfect chodan zuki in proper zenkutsu dachi like we do in the dojo, which is what this specific weight training is for. Karate Combat gives us the best glimpse of what karate might look like in a real fight, minus attacking joints.

So yeah, do these exercises if you're a high level kata competitor or if you're that dedicated to having the best looking technique in class. Otherwise, training for general strength and fitness is always your best bet.

 

[opr1945]

Here is a video. not the one I saw first but similar

 

[Gyakuto]

Here is a video. not the one I saw first but similar

It’d be much more effective as an exercise if Jesse performed this from a prone position…on a bench, for example.

 

[Fungus]

For punching power I agree the correct biomechanics but muscles are needed I think not just for acceleration but also for stabilisation. It is very easy to damage your wrists, so I train my wrists and hand grip muscles. These lower arm muscles does not generate power per see, but having a robust and stable fist, means you can add more power and body weight into your strikes without damaging yourself.

For power generation, I try to train explosivity by making "explosive pushups". The purpose then is not to get stronger but to become more explosive. Jesse does it in the same video above

I think the point isn't necessarily to "jump" up, but to make the pushups as FAST and hard and explosive as you can; just as when you punch. Not slow.

Aside from this just punchning the bag hard, and I think you will train automatically the right muscles and get it all into muscle memory.

The only "tool" I use so far is a handgrip trainer. The rest is using my own body weight, one way or the other.

 

[opr1945]

A few years ago I fell about 4 feet and landed on my right shoulder, I am right handed. I broke my rotator cuff and ripped the long head attchement to my shoulder. the short head attachment is intact (no jokes please). So I only have half a bicept and no strength above my arm pit and damaged coller bone. Doctors, in their wisdom said I was to old for surgery. My arm looks normal but I have little strength in it. If I raise my arms and make right angles in a muscle pose the difference is obvious. My right bicept is hanging down not pumped up. Anyway, think I will pass on this exercise.

 

[Monkey Turned Wolf]

I work with weights 1 hr, 3X's/wk. I do incline sit-ups, leg lifts, back extensions, leg press, side bends with dumbell and twisting with pulley weights - core work which takes about a third of my gym time. Aside from providing a solid platform for hand techniques these exercises are useful in close in grappling and takedowns.

This is similar to my own. Warmup and cooldown is cardio (but most cardio is done in training). 50% of my time is spent on core a combination of situps/leg lifts/oblique exercises, 25% on legs, and the other 25% is split between upper body/back/arms. Finish off before cooldown with rope swings. Not going to make me look like an olympic athlete, but pretty close to what i need for martial arts purposes.

 

[opr1945]

Here is a video of Chinese kettle bells from about year 600 ad. It starts at about minute 7:00. And a 79 year old man appears using a 93 pound Kettle bell!. Also, about a 471 pound kettle bell at minute 5:30!

 

[Kung Fu Wang]

Weight training is more important for the throwing art than for the striking art. Even today, I still cannot find any modern gym training that you can develop 2 arms twisting power better than this ancient method.

 

[Prince_Alarming]

I swear by (and sometimes at) the standing (power) clean and bent press, my pet lift. I guess you could use kettlebells, but they're kind of expensive considering all they really are is dumbbells whose civilisation has collapsed. There's even an argument that using a dumbbell is better as it's less taxing on the grip, and therefore actually targets the prime movers of the exercise more.

 

[opr1945]

Lots of U-Tube videos on do it yourself Kettle Bells creations.

 

[Same Trick]

The ‘chi ishi’ is a weight training tool used in traditional (Okinawan)karate, its similar to to the Indian/iranian-clubs that have more relation to wrestling than striking.

For striking training especially karate striking…. Was the makiwara mentioned in the thread ? that’s the traditional tool to exercise karate strikes.

However staying with the topic of swinging a weight around to develop striking strength perhaps doing regular kendo suburi but with a heavier wooden bokken could do for it ?

Recall in Masatoshi Nakayama’s - Dynamic Karate(Shotokan) there’s pic of Kanazawa exercising with such

 

[drop bear]

I swear by (and sometimes at) the standing (power) clean and bent press, my pet lift. I guess you could use kettlebells, but they're kind of expensive considering all they really are is dumbbells whose civilisation has collapsed. There's even an argument that using a dumbbell is better as it's less taxing on the grip, and therefore actually targets the prime movers of the exercise more.

Exercise is a will game. I have a hammer because it looked cool

The 10 though. Not the 20.

 

[Prince_Alarming]

Exercise is a will game. I have a hammer because it looked cool

The 10 though. Not the 20.

View attachment 31485

Hey! That thing is cool! Jealous now.
I think you're probably right as well, it doesn't actually matter. It's just a heavy object, best to get one you like.