Kettebells for strength

[Gerry Seymour]

carpal tunnel syndrome, is the carpal ligiments wearing in to their eer tunnel, the carpal ligaments work the fingers not the wrist, which is why typists suffer from it.it just happens to be in the wrist were it happens, it isn't caused by movement of the wrist

RSIs in general are years in the making, so hours a day, week after week for years, nobody got tennis elbow on 12mins hitting a ball 3 times a week

Okay, so you're actually aware of RSI. So what, exactly is it you don't understand about the idea of them happening from a much heavier weight, like a KB?

It's pretty clear you're just looking to pick a fight. You didn't even take up the issue with the guy who posted the warning. You're ridiculous sometimes, mate.

 

[punisher73]

well no, kb are close to a whole body exercise, that there beauty. I really doubt any one in moderate condition who hasn't gone silly with the weight is going to cause themselves serious injury to the wrists, I mean really what will they break, minor injury will just result in what ever you injured becoming stronger, which is the main purpose of swinging them about in the first place

Your post puts in parameters that aren't realistic to justify your incorrect position. You stated that anyone who hasn't "gone silly with the weight" isn't going to cause themselves serious injury to the wrist. That's a load of bullock! That's like saying it doesn't matter if you round your back on deadlifts and use bad form, you aren't going to cause yourself serious harm because the weight isn't a lot. You still need correct form, because as you do move up in weight it becomes an issue. So, your stance is again "use bad form as long as you don't use a lot of weight and you won't hurt yourself" is an issue because I have personally seen it many times in the weight room if someone's posture and form are not corrected they hurt themselves because they DO keep adding weight to their bad form and not knowing any better until the injury occurs.

 

[jobo]

Okay, so you're actually aware of RSI. So what, exactly is it you don't understand about the idea of them happening from a much heavier weight, like a KB?

It's pretty clear you're just looking to pick a fight. You didn't even take up the issue with the guy who posted the warning. You're ridiculous sometimes, mate.

Your post puts in parameters that aren't realistic to justify your incorrect position. You stated that anyone who hasn't "gone silly with the weight" isn't going to cause themselves serious injury to the wrist. That's a load of bullock! That's like saying it doesn't matter if you round your back on deadlifts and use bad form, you aren't going to cause yourself serious harm because the weight isn't a lot. You still need correct form, because as you do move up in weight it becomes an issue. So, your stance is again "use bad form as long as you don't use a lot of weight and you won't hurt yourself" is an issue because I have personally seen it many times in the weight room if someone's posture and form are not corrected they hurt themselves because they DO keep adding weight to their bad form and not knowing any better until the injury occurs.

well 1 your mis representing my point, my point is that it's not bad form, 2 you can injure your self with any form if the weight is to high.

so do good form, ie work the wrist and dont put to much weight on to soon. and you will be just fine

saying people are prone to do to much weight is academic people are prone to cross the road with out looking what's coming, you can't really build a world to reduce risk caused by peoples own negligence

and as an aside, if correct form means taking the lower back out of the equation, 5hen any exercise to strengthen the lower back is automatically bad form. which is why so many weight lifter have weak backs. to much good form.

 

[Gerry Seymour]

well 1 your mis representing my point, my point is that it's not bad form, 2 you can injure your self with any form if the weight is to high.

so do good form, ie work the wrist and dont put to much weight on to soon. and you will be just fine

saying people are prone to do to much weight is academic people are prone to cross the road with out looking what's coming, you can't really build a world to reduce risk caused by peoples own negligence

and as an aside, if correct form means taking the lower back out of the equation, 5hen any exercise to strengthen the lower back is automatically bad form. which is why so many weight lifter have weak backs. to much good form.

Okay, so what were you arguing about all along, then?

 

[jobo]

Okay, so what were you arguing about all along, then?

I'm arguing the same point with punisher I was all along, I'm disagreeing with you. as you posted in contradict m e

 

[Gerry Seymour]

I'm arguing the same point with punisher I was all along, I'm disagreeing with you. as you posted in contradict m e

Here's what I disagreed with:

well no, kb are close to a whole body exercise, that there beauty. I really doubt any one in moderate condition who hasn't gone silly with the weight is going to cause themselves serious injury to the wrists, I mean really what will they break, minor injury will just result in what ever you injured becoming stronger, which is the main purpose of swinging them about in the first place

I disagreed with your statement that injury to the joint would strengthen the tissue, and that reasonable weight would prevent significant injury. I'm not sure anything you've said since changes either of those statements, nor my disagreement with them.

 

[jobo]

Here's what I disagreed with:



I disagreed with your statement that injury to the joint would strengthen the tissue, and that reasonable weight would prevent significant injury. I'm not sure anything you've said since changes either of those statements, nor my disagreement with them.

well it's ok to disagreeit even if as 7ssual you are wrong, but the arguments are started by you disagreeing, if you dont want to debate a point dont disagree, see how easy it 8s ?

 

[dvcochran]

well it's ok to disagreeit even if as 7ssual you are wrong, but the arguments are started by you disagreeing, if you dont want to debate a point dont disagree, see how easy it 8s ?

Have you ever thought of taking a grammar class, a typing class, and reading what you just typed before hitting "Post Reply"? Any one of the three would be a marked improvement.

 

[jobo]

Have you ever thought of taking a grammar class, a typing class, and reading what you just typed before hitting "Post Reply"? Any one of the three would be a marked improvement.

I'm multi tasking, there is not just you lot who are wrong on the internet you know, I've got the flat earthers to contend with as well

 

[Gerry Seymour]

well it's ok to disagreeit even if as 7ssual you are wrong, but the arguments are started by you disagreeing, if you dont want to debate a point dont disagree, see how easy it 8s ?

So, which part of what I've said am I "wrong" about, then? The part where bad form can cause injury without unreasonable weight? The part where joint injuries don't strengthen joints? I'm curious to see.

And, no, arguments aren't started by my disagreement. They're started by your argumentative approach. I've disagreed with many people and managed to have a discussion rather than an argument. You just seem to like arguing when your statements are questioned or challenged. And I'm okay with that.

 

[Gerry Seymour]

Have you ever thought of taking a grammar class, a typing class, and reading what you just typed before hitting "Post Reply"? Any one of the three would be a marked improvement.

Jobo's devices don't seem to know what his fingers want. At least we're not having to read the ridiculous autocorrects his Fire was producing. I'd rather read his typos.

 

[dvcochran]

Jobo's devices don't seem to know what his fingers want. At least we're not having to read the ridiculous autocorrects his Fire was producing. I'd rather read his typos.

I first wondered if he did everything from a smart phone or screen keyboard. Then I realized how often he over-reaches and hit the numbers.

 

[jobo]

I first wondered if he did everything from a smart phone or screen keyboard. Then I realized how often he over-reaches and hit the numbers.

big fingers, small key board

 

[jobo]

So, which part of what I've said am I "wrong" about, then? The part where bad form can cause injury without unreasonable weight? The part where joint injuries don't strengthen joints? I'm curious to see.

And, no, arguments aren't started by my disagreement. They're started by your argumentative approach. I've disagreed with many people and managed to have a discussion rather than an argument. You just seem to like arguing when your statements are questioned or challenged. And I'm okay with that.

this is your strawman, I'm not saying bad form is good for kettle bells, I'm saying it's not bad form at all, your wrong about all the issues I outlined above that you have failed to address, repeating them for you to fail to address them again seem a bit pointless?

on the wider point, yes bad form can be good if your sensible with the weights, good form is removing certain joints/ muscle from the exercise, that allows you to lift heavy with out injuring yourself. which is obviously a big plus, but it also has the effect of not strenthing the muscles that work those joints, leaving you weak in any circumstances were you cant use good form. so for instance, pulling a 200 lb guy out , who is clinging on the edge of a ravine will not allow you to use your dead luft good form, your going to have to load up the lower back to achieve it, an area that is weak because you have always adopted good form in you dead lift

I given literally thousands of kinetic lifting classes, and the issue people constantly throw at me, is ok, how do I lift something with good technique that's down a hole or very restricted space, and I've no answer for that apart from dont which is ok as long as you dont have to

 

[dvcochran]

this is your strawman, I'm not saying bad form is good for kettle bells, I'm saying it's not bad form at all, your wrong about all the issues I outlined above that you have failed to address, repeating them for you to fail to address them again seem a bit pointless?

on the wider point, yes bad form can be good if your sensible with the weights, good form is removing certain joints/ muscle from the exercise, that allows you to lift heavy with out injuring yourself. which is obviously a big plus, but it also has the effect of not strenthing the muscles that work those joints, leaving you weak in any circumstances were you cant use good form. so for instance, pulling a 200 lb guy out , who is clinging on the edge of a ravine will not allow you to use your dead luft good form, your going to have to load up the lower back to achieve it, an area that is weak because you have always adopted good form in you dead lift

I given literally thousands of kinetic lifting classes, and the issue people constantly throw at me, is ok, how do I lift something with good technique that's down a hole or very restricted space, and I've no answer for that apart from dont which is ok as long as you dont have to

You are leaving out mindset when doing a particular exercise. Each is intended to work a certain muscle or group. There are exercises that will strengthen every muscle in the body. A person has to know and understand them to be able to work them safely. I like the gymnast vs. body builder analogy. Body builders are very good at isolating specific muscles. Gymnast are very good at overall muscle conditioning. I will take the latter every time.

 

[Gerry Seymour]

this is your strawman, I'm not saying bad form is good for kettle bells, I'm saying it's not bad form at all, your wrong about all the issues I outlined above that you have failed to address, repeating them for you to fail to address them again seem a bit pointless?

Where did I imply you said bad form was good?

on the wider point, yes bad form can be good if your sensible with the weights, good form is removing certain joints/ muscle from the exercise, that allows you to lift heavy with out injuring yourself. which is obviously a big plus, but it also has the effect of not strenthing the muscles that work those joints, leaving you weak in any circumstances were you cant use good form. so for instance, pulling a 200 lb guy out , who is clinging on the edge of a ravine will not allow you to use your dead luft good form, your going to have to load up the lower back to achieve it, an area that is weak because you have always adopted good form in you dead lift

I given literally thousands of kinetic lifting classes, and the issue people constantly throw at me, is ok, how do I lift something with good technique that's down a hole or very restricted space, and I've no answer for that apart from dont which is ok as long as you dont have to

Here, I'll just disagree on the definition of "bad form". Bad form is only that form which makes an exercise either less useful to its purpose, or injurious. What you're talking about I'd just call a different use of the exercise. If folks are asking how to lift with good form, they're asking how to NOT injure themselves.

 

[23rdwave]

Try StrongFirst's "Simple and Sinister" kettlebell training plan. Two exercices: swings and get-ups.

Every Joint. Every Day. The Elegance of Simple and Sinister | StrongFirst

 

[punisher73]

this is your strawman, I'm not saying bad form is good for kettle bells, I'm saying it's not bad form at all, your wrong about all the issues I outlined above that you have failed to address, repeating them for you to fail to address them again seem a bit pointless?

on the wider point, yes bad form can be good if your sensible with the weights, good form is removing certain joints/ muscle from the exercise, that allows you to lift heavy with out injuring yourself. which is obviously a big plus, but it also has the effect of not strenthing the muscles that work those joints, leaving you weak in any circumstances were you cant use good form. so for instance, pulling a 200 lb guy out , who is clinging on the edge of a ravine will not allow you to use your dead luft good form, your going to have to load up the lower back to achieve it, an area that is weak because you have always adopted good form in you dead lift

I given literally thousands of kinetic lifting classes, and the issue people constantly throw at me, is ok, how do I lift something with good technique that's down a hole or very restricted space, and I've no answer for that apart from dont which is ok as long as you dont have to

WHAT? This is so wrong on so many levels. Lifts like the squat and deadlift will train the WHOLE BODY when done correctly to stabilize all of the joints etc. for the lift. I'm not sure where you get a weak lower back from using proper form in a deadlift. There are variations of the deadlift that will strengthen the lower back while still using good form. You are arguing non-sense to not have to admit that you are wrong.

It scares me that you claim to have trained 1000's of people on crap.

 

[jobo]

WHAT? This is so wrong on so many levels. Lifts like the squat and deadlift will train the WHOLE BODY when done correctly to stabilize all of the joints etc. for the lift. I'm not sure where you get a weak lower back from using proper form in a deadlift. There are variations of the deadlift that will strengthen the lower back while still using good form. You are arguing non-sense to not have to admit that you are wrong.

It scares me that you claim to have trained 1000's of people on crap.

well clearly the squat and dead lift will not train the WHOLE BODY, do you really need me to list the muscles they dont train ? there wouldn't be any other exercises if that were true

and I dont 5hink you need to be rude just because someone rightly disagrees with you, that just childish

 

[punisher73]

well clearly the squat and dead lift will not train the WHOLE BODY, do you really need me to list the muscles they dont train ? there wouldn't be any other exercises if that were true

and I dont 5hink you need to be rude just because someone rightly disagrees with you, that just childish

Re-read my post, I said that the squat and deadlifts when done correctly will train the whole body TO STABILIZE ALL OF THE JOINTS, I did NOT say train all of the muscles. If I was talking just working muscles, the squat, deadlift, bench and military press would hit all of your muscles.

You still have NOT countered my point with actual reasons, you just say that I'm wrong and then change around what was said. It's not rude to point out a truthful fact. I would say that about anyone that claims to teach others on something that will get you hurt and is based on faulty premises in training.