Kenpo with weapons?

[dianhsuhe]

Pretty good mix of arts he has/is studying... That knife grabbing pic. does make me CRINGE however.

I see this guys ad's in IKF all the time---

 

[CaptLou]

Okinawan Kenpo under Seikichi Odo taught weapons from the getgo...

http://www.paulortino.com/bios/odo_s.htm

 

[phoenix]

Thanks so much for your answer Sean :asian: Do you know if thats how AKKI schools normally train or is that more specific to your school? Just curious as I've never had a chance to train at a school in Mr. Mills lineage.

I believe you would find that to be the norm, and not the exception. At our Vegas camps, there are numerous color belts in the various club/knife seminars, I think most of our schools integrate at least some of the drills and sets, earlier than Brown Belt.

Sean

 

[Carol]

Has anyone commented that trains in Mr. Pick's lineage? I know he is strong with knife work but I don't know that much about him.

 

[MJS]

I have the tapes in question by Joe Simonet. Definately some great stuff. In addition to the blade, he also works the techs. with a stick as well.

As for the pic....I hope that he doesn't have a full grip on that! Not that grabbing the side is less risky, but I'm not one to put my hand around like that. I realize its a training blade but still.

Mike

 

[Ceicei]

As for the pic....I hope that he doesn't have a full grip on that! Not that grabbing the side is less risky, but I'm not one to put my hand around like that. I realize its a training blade but still.

Mike

I suppose when it is a situation that makes a difference between life and death, it may be necessary to sacrifice the hand.... I will if I need to, but hopefully, I can bring my skills up to the point that I may try avoiding the need to grip that way.

- Ceicei

 

[MJS]

I suppose when it is a situation that makes a difference between life and death, it may be necessary to sacrifice the hand.... I will if I need to, but hopefully, I can bring my skills up to the point that I may try avoiding the need to grip that way.

- Ceicei

I agree! There are a number of traps with the blade in the FMAs, and not all of them are putting the hand in a position like that.

Mike

 

[arnisador]

You do see sword fighters pressing the back edge of a blade with the palm of their hand to trap it at times--e.g., cross blades and grab the back of your opponent's blade with a cupped grip or half-grip to pin it--but you don't really see it with a knife very often.

 

[Medicineman]

My particular school started defense techniques at yellow and first weapons form at blue. This is the adult class only. I'm not sure of the youth ranks.

 

[Gentle Fist]

In Cerio Kenpo, the adults start def against a knife/club/gun at yellow. The first weapon form is at 3rd kyu.

 

[Flying Crane]

I suppose when it is a situation that makes a difference between life and death, it may be necessary to sacrifice the hand.... I will if I need to, but hopefully, I can bring my skills up to the point that I may try avoiding the need to grip that way.

- Ceicei

Hmm...maybe. If you sacrifice the hand but know that you will gain real control over the knife, or some other advantage, then OK. But it seems to me that you might just sacrifice the hand, get cut, and then get stabbed in the belly, and get your throat cut, and get stabbed in the kidney, etc.

If you grab the blade of a knife, I would think it would be easy for the knife wielder to simply twist and pull it out of your hand, giving you a severe cut, possibly severing tendons and rendering your hand useless. He then has the knife free for the next cut, or stab, and the next, and the next...

So if grabbing the blade and sacrificing the hand would prevent a stab to the belly, and give you another couple seconds to try and come up with something more decisive, I guess that makes some sense, rather than just stand there and take the stab to the belly in the first place. I'd say this approach should be deeply pondered in the safety of the dojo long before you face an attacker with a knife.

 

[youngbraveheart]

The only weapons we train with are the ones that the attacker (uke) uses like a fake knife or club, and we're to counter the attack(s). It'll be interesting when our instructor decides to use such "real" weapons as a hammer or whatever he finds in a tool box for use in our counter techniques or multiple "men" attacking.

 

[Perpetual White Belt]

Okinawan Kenpo under Seikichi Odo taught weapons from the getgo...

That's because there are(or is that were now) more weapon kata in the Ryukyu Hon Kenpo Kobujyitsu system than empty hand. Odo Seikichi Sensei actually introduced the weapons into Nakamura Sensei's Okinawa Kenpo. Most came from Matayoshi Shinko Sensei's Kobudo. He reportedly knew some Chinese sword forms and other weapons, but sadly if it's true he passed away before he was able to pass them on.

 

[Marcus Buonfiglio]

Has anyone commented that trains in Mr. Pick's lineage? I know he is strong with knife work but I don't know that much about him.

Greetings,
In the UKF we set the stage for the blade in the very first lesson. The entire process, from the very first lesson at white belt all the way to Black Belt and beyond to the advanced application of twin blades is connected and sequential in its unfolding. Consideration and application of weapon defense as well as multiple attackers are introduced and taught in the early belts including strategies in dealing with those threats. I bring the knife in as a visual tool in the first lesson. We have found that familiarization at an early level under strict supervision engages the mind in an attack the attack thought process that is required in dealing with todays threats. Understand however that we teach a set based system that is conducive to this learning process. The technique based system that is pervasive in Kenpo today does not allow for introduction of the blade in the early stages of learning. In my opinion to do so would create confusion in the student. It is not as simple as just putting a knife in your hand and doing techniques. Many of the principles taught through the memorization of the empty hand techniques, if adhered to with the blade, will produce severe injury to the practitioner. It is my opinion that the system that Senior Grand Master Edmund Parker created, current at the time of his death , although phenomenal and complete in it's empty hand application, could not support the blade. It wasn't until you were well into the gaseous stage of moving that you could start to explore the blade with confidence.

Marcus Buonfiglio
Universal Kenpo Federation