Kenpo Manuals

[Sandor]

Originally posted by satans.barber

The point at which a demand curve intersects a supply curve is called the point of equilibrium, the point at which buyers are happy to buy and sellers are happy to sell.

As I stated earlier it is not my opinion the prices are out of hand. Try buying a video on a specialty topic and see what the fair market price of the video is. You will find that the price for say a video in the medical field on a particular subject is 4 fold the price you pay for a martial arts video.

It would seem to me that the prices of most martial arts media are WAY above the point of equilibrium, sic. Larry Tatum tapes at nearly £25 each, it's ridiculous.

See note above.

If they charge above equilibrium, then people are inclined not to buy things. Say someone could supply a Larry Tatum tape for £10 that was bootleg, maybe I'd be happy to pay that, say it was £15, maybe I'd stretch to that, if it got above that then no, it's too expensive.

So look, we've found a point of equilibrium (for me as a consumer), which is 60% of the market price.

The point is that suppliers are stimulating the black market by inflating prices, they bring it on themselves. VHS re-production can be found at very competetive prices, so I can't believe they're going to be oporating at a loss by reducing the prices to something more reasonable.

So, getting a tape dupe in a run of say a thousand costs 1£ per unit and maybe the cover(though that price is really a reflection of making a run of 5,000 or 10,000 units...a more fair number for such a small quantity would be 2£). It would be great if the cost of the item and the retail of the item are the only things to consider. They are not, however. I work in this field and it becomes very expensive to do a small project like a Kenpo video. A fair number would be $5,000 USD (not including the previous run of units at 1,000). So, the 1,000 tapes and project cost are now easily 6,000USD without any marketing to buy adspace in the appropriate publications.

As for books, I don't know as much about that, but I can only imagine it's a similar situation, although getting books printed is more complex and costly than getting tapes reproduced.

Well, again there are costs and overhead in the production of said books. Printing, binding, the labor to produce said content etc. It all adds up to the point I made in the begining.

The point is that you're not depriving a company of the money if you were never going to buy the good in the first place. That doesn't make buying bootleg stuff right, it's just a fact.

Ian. [/B]

Sadly, these are not 'companies' to deprive but individuals who put a treendous amount of their time and monies into the production of these items. If a project is done at say 10,000 USD and the cost of each item to produce was a mere $10 per, It will take many years of selling the item to get out of the red. The reason you can buy a copy of *insert name of favorite movie here* at the local shop is that they (as in the copanies producing the product) can do so in huge numbers, say 500,000 per run and sell those 500,000. Good luck selling 1,000 copies of a kenpo video in the same 4-5 day window that blockbuster moves half a million copies of Harry Potter.

I think you miss my point. The items(books and videos) available to the Kenpo world are specialty educational products and as such will indeed cost more to produce and see a profit on. I buy lots of computer books every year. Not one of them cost less than $49.95 USD. I would bet there are a lot more people in the computing field who buy those books(just in the US) than people studying Kenpo (worldwide).

So, the information has a certain value far beyond the tangible product purchased. How much would it cost you to hop across the pond and get a class with Mr. Tatum?

Peace,
Sandor

 

[GouRonin]

The reason that theft is way out of control in Kenpo is the cost of most things people sell. The 2 are related.

Second, the manuals are useless without an instructor who knows what they are doing.

 

[Goldendragon7]

Originally posted by GouRonin
The reason that theft is way out of control in Kenpo is,
One, the cost of most things people sell is too high
and
Second, the manuals are useless without an instructor who knows what they are doing. ....... The 2 are related.

Now, Gou, just get everyone to realize that.

:asian:

 

[jfarnsworth]

I guess I might be behind times. I don't have a manual. I can't really afford to buy manuals off of Mr. Parker Jr.'s web site. I guess I'll have to keep doing what I'm doing. Writing my own for myself. I put all key notes that I've learned over the years. Mr. Planas' seminar's that we go over each and every technique one by one. Yeah it's going to take me a few yrs. but what do I have but time huh.
Jason Farnsworth

 

[AvPKenpo]

Originally posted by Sandor



Sadly, these are not 'companies' to deprive but individuals who put a treendous amount of their time and monies into the production of these items. If a project is done at say 10,000 USD and the cost of each item to produce was a mere $10 per, It will take many years of selling the item to get out of the red. The reason you can buy a copy of *insert name of favorite movie here* at the local shop is that they (as in the copanies producing the product) can do so in huge numbers, say 500,000 per run and sell those 500,000. Good luck selling 1,000 copies of a kenpo video in the same 4-5 day window that blockbuster moves half a million copies of Harry Potter.

I think you miss my point. The items(books and videos) available to the Kenpo world are specialty educational products and as such will indeed cost more to produce and see a profit on. I buy lots of computer books every year. Not one of them cost less than $49.95 USD. I would bet there are a lot more people in the computing field who buy those books(just in the US) than people studying Kenpo (worldwide).

So, the information has a certain value far beyond the tangible product purchased. How much would it cost you to hop across the pond and get a class with Mr. Tatum?

Peace,
Sandor

Bravo, I have to agree with all you said. I am in Video Production also. I know first hand how much everything costs. Especially if you are going to do a PROFESSIONAL job. Anybody can do a video, but most people don't afford to do one professionally. If people would take the time to understand how a professional can help them, there would be better quality videos out there.
I am not just talking information(believe it or not there is some help there also), I am talking being able to hear them speak, getting the most out of the time of the video(more info in a shorter amount of time), being able to see from multiple angles, and being able to see what is happening becuase the video is not so poor. A professional (unfortunately there are people that claim this that don't know the first thing about video) can help with the flow from concept to completion. When I have the chance to make a Kenpo Video it WILL be one of the best on the market becuase I have seen what not to do.
Now I do need to see some updated videos, most that I have seen have been a few years old. Tatum's mainly. I thought he had good information, but I would have changed quite a bit of it. Well okay, almost all of it. I would not have changed his information, but I would have adjusted the delivery of the information, and how it was shot.

Ok I am done for now...........:soapbox:

Michael

 

[ProfessorKenpo]

Originally posted by AvPKenpo



Now I do need to see some updated videos, most that I have seen have been a few years old. Tatum's mainly. I thought he had good information, but I would have changed quite a bit of it. Well okay, almost all of it. I would not have changed his information, but I would have adjusted the delivery of the information, and how it was shot.

Ok I am done for now...........:soapbox:

Michael

You're absolutely right about Larry's tapes, but they were done about 10 years ago and shot on Beta cam (which wasn't cheap). The new knife videos and sets videos were done with Tim Bulot in Texas, and he proved to do a much better job and much cheaper than the other. Ck them out, they're worth it. I'm waiting to do an interacitve DVD- rom next time out when money permits, YEEEEHHAAA, that's the stuff there.

Have a great Kenpo day

Clyde

 

[AvPKenpo]

Originally posted by satans.barber



It would seem to me that the prices of most martial arts media are WAY above the point of equilibrium, sic. Larry Tatum tapes at nearly £25 each, it's ridiculous.


The point is that suppliers are stimulating the black market by inflating prices, they bring it on themselves. VHS re-production can be found at very competetive prices, so I can't believe they're going to be oporating at a loss by reducing the prices to something more reasonable.


Ian.

You have to remember it is not the reproduction of the tape that is costly, it is the black market that is costly to us. If the Masters do not make any money(or even make it to the black), they will not make any more tapes. So it is costing us in the long run not to buy a tape from who made it. Especially if you enjoy and use the information provided.:asian:

Michael

 

[AvPKenpo]

Originally posted by ProfessorKenpo



You're absolutely right about Larry's tapes, but they were done about 10 years ago and shot on Beta cam (which wasn't cheap). The new knife videos and sets videos were done with Tim Bulot in Texas, and he proved to do a much better job and much cheaper than the other. Ck them out, they're worth it. I'm waiting to do an interacitve DVD- rom next time out when money permits, YEEEEHHAAA, that's the stuff there.

Have a great Kenpo day

Clyde

Cool I will look around for them. Thanks for the lead.

Michael

 

[Sandor]

Originally posted by GouRonin

The reason that theft is way out of control in Kenpo is the cost of most things people sell. The 2 are related.

Second, the manuals are useless without an instructor who knows what they are doing.

Whelp, I agree there is a connection between the two BUT... well.. I already stated my thoughts on that. Let me just add that I do understand the financial burden of the cost, I don't have a big bank to work with either and not all the videos in my collection are worth what I paid for them. Many of them like the Huk Planas forms videos and Larry Tatums latest releases are excellent. Some of them, well... caveat emptor.

The manuals are indeed useless without an instructor to be sure but I would add to that statement that videos without an instructor are just as bad, if not worse. Now folks see what to do but have no way to guage whether or not they are doing it correctly(this applies mainly to people who have no experience in a formal martial edumacation with an instructor, as usual the experienced pratitioner will benefit.. they know what to look for etc.).

Peace,
Sandor

 

[GouRonin]

Originally posted by Goldendragon7
Now, Gou, just get everyone to realize that.

That Kenpoists like to rip people off?

Shouldn't be hard to do...

 

[GouRonin]

Originally posted by jfarnsworth
I guess I might be behind times. I don't have a manual. I can't really afford to buy manuals off of Mr. Parker Jr.'s web site. I guess I'll have to keep doing what I'm doing. Writing my own for myself. I put all key notes that I've learned over the years. Mr. Planas' seminar's that we go over each and every technique one by one. Yeah it's going to take me a few yrs. but what do I have but time huh.
Jason Farnsworth

You just keep doing what you are doing. I didn't get a chance to see you move a lot last weekend because Big Guy kept trying to kill me but from what I saw you were doing just fine.

For those who were not there I met jay last weekend. Hell of a nice guy and a good kenpoist.

Well, as far as kenpoists ever go he's a good one...
:rofl:

 

[jfarnsworth]

Originally posted by GouRonin



You just keep doing what you are doing. I didn't get a chance to see you move a lot last weekend because Big Guy kept trying to kill me but from what I saw you were doing just fine.

For those who were not there I met jay last weekend. Hell of a nice guy and a good kenpoist.

Well, as far as kenpoists ever go he's a good one...
:rofl:

Thank you for the comment. I appreciate it. I just try to do the best with what I have to work with. That's about all anyone can do. About this kenpo manual thing anyone can buy one I guess. I personally will appreciate the one I'm working on more since it'll be in my own words with different variable extensions that Mr. Planas has taught at those seminar's.
Jason Farnsworth

 

[Goldendragon7]

Originally posted by GouRonin

That Kenpoists like to rip people off?

Shouldn't be hard to do...

NO...... that's not what I was referring to! And you know it. That was a cheap shot!:rpo:

We were not talking about "ripping people off" but rather 1, to bring the prices down to a more affordable level for most and 2, your statement that the manuals are useless without an instructor that knows what that are doing.

:asian:

 

[GouRonin]

Originally posted by Goldendragon7
NO...... that's not what I was referring to! And you know it. That was a cheap shot!

Frank Trejo once asked me this question. "When is the best time to hit someone? WHEN THEY'RE NOT LOOKING!!!"

Sounded like good advice to me.

Originally posted by Goldendragon7
We were not talking about "ripping people off" but rather 1, to bring the prices down to a more affordable level for most and 2, your statement that the manuals are useless without an instructor that knows what that are doing.

I agree with bringing the prices into a more affordable range and that manuals without an instructor are near useless.
:asian:

 

[Goldendragon7]

Originally posted by GouRonin
Frank Trejo once asked me this question. "When is the best time to hit someone? WHEN THEY'RE NOT LOOKING!!!"
Sounded like good advice to me.

Cool, I'll remember that advice next time I see you.


:asian:

 

[cdhall]

Originally posted by Goldendragon7



Cool, I'll remember that advice next time I see you.


:asian:

You mean next time Gou "doesn't" see you.

 

[GouRonin]

Like you could catch me.
:wavey: :wavey:

 

[Seig]

If you don't see him comming, you can't run!

 

[Goldendragon7]

I know where he lives and I know what brand treats Samson likes..... hee hee:shrug:

 

[GouRonin]

Originally posted by Seig
If you don't see him comming, you can't run!

Uh...I'm pretty sure I'd hear him coming... if I put my ear to the ground.