Keeping students in the age of Covid

[JowGaWolf]

My thoughts on the entertainment side of martial arts is that Extreme Martial Arts looks cool especially in the movies, but practical and functional martial arts can look cool too. It's all about presentation and which side you decide to show. Plus a little theme or background music also helps lol. Demos are one thing, but I think people really appreciated seeing things in actual use, especially since we rarely see Martial Arts applications beyond a a school demo.

MODERATORS: Don't delete this as the school no longer exists. Website is no longer up.

I used this video because it promotes my perception of what Martial Arts is and what is possible with Jow Ga. One student watched this video for 2 months and passed up a lot of Sifu's and more qualified teachers than me. I don't know what's more amazing, that he watched the same video for 2 months or that he passed up other Sifu's to train with an Instructor.

On a new project I'm working on. I will diverse a little on "What martial arts includes" Because it's more than just sparring.

 

[Gerry Seymour]

I see it just the opposite. I cannot be martial and be dance. It can be art and be dance.

mar·tial
/ˈmärSHəl/
adjective

1. of or appropriate to war; warlike.

A couple of thoughts on this.

First, we can approach the term two ways. We can hold our own view of it and (for those teaching) teach only those who hold the same view. I have no problem with that approach, but (again, for those teaching) it limits who you can help. If I only taught the way I prefer to practice, I'd only be able to teach relatively young folks, folks with previous experience in falls, or exceptional folks who can still learn that quickly after age 30. Since those aren't the folks typically walking in my door, I'd probably not be able to keep the program going. So for me, I am open to teaching folks with a different goal from their training than I have/had. If what I taught was MMA or BJJ (more popular, and the latter probably less impact), I could probably get by teaching only to those who share my view of MA.

Secondly, I'm not a fan of literal interpretation of individual words in a term to identify the term's meaning. Terms mean what they are used to mean. I have this same issue with folks who try to interpret "arts" to mean it must have an artistic/expressive element, or it doesn't qualify as a MA. Neither word need keep its literal meaning in the compound term. In talking with folks in MA (as they define it), I find usages ranging from "derived from battle-tested technique (however long ago that was)" to "focused on combat" to "somehow derived from war or fighting". All seem to be reasonably common usages.

 

[dvcochran]

A couple of thoughts on this.

First, we can approach the term two ways. We can hold our own view of it and (for those teaching) teach only those who hold the same view. I have no problem with that approach, but (again, for those teaching) it limits who you can help. If I only taught the way I prefer to practice, I'd only be able to teach relatively young folks, folks with previous experience in falls, or exceptional folks who can still learn that quickly after age 30. Since those aren't the folks typically walking in my door, I'd probably not be able to keep the program going. So for me, I am open to teaching folks with a different goal from their training than I have/had. If what I taught was MMA or BJJ (more popular, and the latter probably less impact), I could probably get by teaching only to those who share my view of MA.

Secondly, I'm not a fan of literal interpretation of individual words in a term to identify the term's meaning. Terms mean what they are used to mean. I have this same issue with folks who try to interpret "arts" to mean it must have an artistic/expressive element, or it doesn't qualify as a MA. Neither word need keep its literal meaning in the compound term. In talking with folks in MA (as they define it), I find usages ranging from "derived from battle-tested technique (however long ago that was)" to "focused on combat" to "somehow derived from war or fighting". All seem to be reasonably common usages.

I fully agree that teaching and by virtue classes have to be scalar. Kids should not be taught the literal ideas of 'martial' arts. Hard enough just to teach them the concept of controlling kicks/punches sometimes. Most people cannot mentally go there to any real depth, at least for quite some time.
We do speak, display, and teach martial techniques at every adult class in candid martial framework. Depending on the class makeup we will go deeper or stay in the shallow end.
I do find myself blurring the line between ideas like you mention and the mentality it takes to compete at very high levels. Much of the chemistry is the same.

I think some of the literal context is an English language paradox; many words have multiple meanings and inferences. When possible I prefer do deal in absolutes, including wording.

 

[dvcochran]

I'm not going to kick out or belittle a student for not wanting to use or train martial arts as a fighting system. I'll not only lose good people, I'll also end up losing good people willing to support and promote my school and the system that I train in. If I want to train as the definition that you stated, then can do that with or without a school. If I'm trying to share and promote my system then I need to have some understanding of the reasons someone may want to join my school. Especially since there's a lot of people out there who take martial arts in person who can't fight even though they spar.

The fastest way to have your school shut down and go out of business is to do start dictating to your students how they should value the training you offer and trying to force them to be like you.

Don't get me wrong. I still teach functional martial arts. I don't change how I teach or what I teach. I can only teach what I know. But if someone wants to only pay me $80 a month to do forms that look cool, or to just get exercise. Then I'm going to take the $80 train them. Students don't have to train for the same reason I train. They only need to:
1. Show up for practice
2. Be respectful to themselves and others.
3. Pay membership fees on time or notify me that they can't
4. Don't be a Jerk.
5. Train hard have fun.

That's all I have ever asked of students and so far that brought people through the door, I never got a call about teaching their kids how to be disciplined. All of my kid calls were about self-defense against bullies. All of my adult calls were about exercise and stay in shape with the exception of 3 adults who wanted to learn how to fight. And another Jow Ga student from up north who wanted to do cool kung fu stuff. He didn't like our school too much. We were too practical for him, some Jow Ga schools go for the flashy look and entertainment look. They teach real techniques but they also add flashy stuff.

I think most of us are on the same page. You dogged martial dance, I do not agree with it. A quality school and instructors will be able to scale classes based on the audience. That said, it is impractical and frankly unethical to try and cater to everyone of every ilk in a given class. Someone will be left out every time. There have to be minimum standards. Period. Your 1-5 list is a given. No one is talking about a strict, hardass class environment. And you may be surprised how many of your casual participants will get to where the want more if the training is done correctly.

 

[JowGaWolf]

You dogged martial dance, I do not agree with it.

I don't think I did. I just called this one like I see it.

This is not martial arts. This is dance.

When it gets to this point, I don't know why they even need the TKD uniform and black belt.

This is dance.

What they do looks more like this and less like something used for fighting.

It's dance not martial arts.

I like cake, seafood, vegetables, steak and tea. But throwing it all in a bowl and mixing it together doesn't make it delicious. Not dogging it. It's just my personal taste

I like Martial Arts, Dance, Fight scense and Gymnastics. Throwing it all together doesn't make it Martial Arts and it definitely doesn't mean I'm going to like it. Not dogging it. It's just my personal taste

 

[JowGaWolf]

Kids should not be taught the literal ideas of 'martial' arts.

Kids came to my school because they were being bullied. Their parents wanted them to know how to fight and how to protect themselves. I taught all of my kids the literal ideas of "martial" arts. Because they came there to learn how to fight and protect themselves. I didn't decide that for them. They came to the school because that's what I focused on and that's they type of training that they were looking for. I didn't get any people who were interested in tricking because I don't train that way. Nor do I teach that way. I rather refer people like that to a school that better fits their needs.

There's nothing wrong with teaching kids the literal ideas of "martial" arts. It's not some awful thing that will traumatize them for life. But what will traumatize them, is getting into a fight at school and getting a brutal beat down because they don't know how to physically protect themselves.

I teach the literal ideas of martial arts and let people decide if they want to hold on to that or not. The youngest student I taught was 5 years old.. One of the things I said right off the back is that we use kung fu to protect our selves and not to be a bully. She understood that and if my memory is correct she actually used it in school. Sounds silly but some of these kids go through hell. If people are telling them to stand up to bullies then they better give that child some physical skill sets to do so.

 

[dvcochran]

Kids came to my school because they were being bullied. Their parents wanted them to know how to fight and how to protect themselves. I taught all of my kids the literal ideas of "martial" arts. Because they came there to learn how to fight and protect themselves. I didn't decide that for them. They came to the school because that's what I focused on and that's they type of training that they were looking for. I didn't get any people who were interested in tricking because I don't train that way. Nor do I teach that way. I rather refer people like that to a school that better fits their needs.

There's nothing wrong with teaching kids the literal ideas of "martial" arts. It's not some awful thing that will traumatize them for life. But what will traumatize them, is getting into a fight at school and getting a brutal beat down because they don't know how to physically protect themselves.

I teach the literal ideas of martial arts and let people decide if they want to hold on to that or not. The youngest student I taught was 5 years old.. One of the things I said right off the back is that we use kung fu to protect our selves and not to be a bully. She understood that and if my memory is correct she actually used it in school. Sounds silly but some of these kids go through hell. If people are telling them to stand up to bullies then they better give that child some physical skill sets to do so.

You are all over the place with this.
Again, I think most of us are on the same page with gross class structure. But there is a decent amount of space between the heavier martial concepts and a 5 year old being bullied. Yes, both can/should be covered in a comprehensive program but that is a fairly large chasm to jump over to lump them together.

 

[Flying Crane]

I don't think I did. I just called this one like I see it.

This is not martial arts. This is dance.

When it gets to this point, I don't know why they even need the TKD uniform and black belt.

This is dance.

What they do looks more like this and less like something used for fighting.

It's dance not martial arts.

I like cake, seafood, vegetables, steak and tea. But throwing it all in a bowl and mixing it together doesn't make it delicious. Not dogging it. It's just my personal taste

I like Martial Arts, Dance, Fight scense and Gymnastics. Throwing it all together doesn't make it Martial Arts and it definitely doesn't mean I'm going to like it. Not dogging it. It's just my personal taste

Jeezuz. Watching this stuff made me want to scoop my eyes out with a spoon.

 

[JowGaWolf]

You are all over the place with this.
Again, I think most of us are on the same page with gross class structure. But there is a decent amount of space between the heavier martial concepts and a 5 year old being bullied. Yes, both can/should be covered in a comprehensive program but that is a fairly large chasm to jump over to lump them together.

I'm not sure what you mean.
I taught kids class with the adults. We didn't have a separate class for kids. The 5 year old trained with the adults doing the same techniques that the beginner adults were training.

 

[JowGaWolf]

Jeezuz. Watching this stuff made me want to scoop my eyes out with a spoon.

Yeah it's really bad and it gets worse.