Kata - final version of a reference book, or evolving tool?

[white belt]

Karate people,

If you like watching a TKD guy (me) take his lumps, on this very subject, look at the "TKD" Won-Hyo Technical Question thread. It's kind of amusing if nothing else. I think they are taking donations for feathers and tar.

respectfully,
white belt

 

[fissure]

Ah White Belt, I tell you where to go to see more of forms interpretation and this is the thanks I get. You still don't seem to get the point that because there is no "written in stone" law of application, then almost all interpretation is valid - even the boring ones offered up by the unimaginative.It's like a math problem where there is no right answer, but some defiantly seem to make more sense than others.

 

[white belt]

Fissure,

I am old and stubborn with an irritating sense of humor, but, I do appreciate and respect a man with patience. If more people were patient like you no one would need self defense.

A question if you would. What is the best way to learn to defend against a rear naked choke?

white belt

 

[chufeng]

The best way to LEARN how to defend against a rear naked choke is to have someone put it on you and work through the techniques you were taught...work on variations that fit your body type...take certain movements out of kata and work with those.

Training for real situations requires realistic training...

Hint: Make your move before the choke is fully applied.

:asian:
chufeng

 

[white belt]

Chufeng,

Thanks I agree. I was hoping to hear from Fissure and get his take too. Do you guys think rear naked chokes are less or more common attacks / fight starters than arm / wrist grabs?

white belt

 

[fissure]

I think a rear choke is much more likely to be used as an attack as it has a definite purpose, that is to injure and incapacitate. A wrist grab is unlikely to be applied by one grown man to another IMO. It implies the desire to intimidate and control rather than injure. It leaves the would be assailant open to numerous counters.
As to the defense of said choke. Chufeng beat me to the punch. If it is applied correctly and already "sunk in," desperation is a word that springs too mind! If it is in the process of being applied, your options are open. My Kempo friends like the wonderful world of instep stomps and hammer fist attacks to soft dangling parts. A former Korean GM loved Yudo (Judo) and liked to use various hip and shoulder throws.Personnaly, I like to manipulate the most extended limb in various positions until I can drive my fist into something that will hurt a whole lot.
I hate to agree with people too much just on principle, but again Chufeng's statement of matching size/streght with tech. comes into play a great deal. I recall a discussion with one of the administrators on the difficulty of relating to students with vastly different body types that your own.

If more people were patient like you no one would need self defense.

There is a thin line between humor and sarcasm. I'm still not sure which side of that line you intent to be.:EG:

 

[chufeng]

Most common attack?

Not a rear choke or a wrist grab I'm afraid...

Sucker punch or shoving match which degenerates into a wrestling match (where you may then find yourself in a rear choke) are probably most common.

:asian:
chufeng

 

[fissure]

I think he meant wich would be the most common between those two specifically....but I could be wrong.

 

[white belt]

No sarcasm intended. Patience is more rare these days is all. Alot of people have a "right now" attitude and also "it's this way or your a BLASPHEMER!!!" atitude. Reminds me of the different factions running around in Monty Python's movie "The Life of Brian". If you haven't seen that movie, there is one funny scene where the Judean People's Front is discussing the drawbacks of the People's Front of Judea while watching gladiator fights in a coliseum. Pretty funny.

You knew where I was going with the question. Yes, I was looking at the two specific attacks mentioned. I have seen some arm grabs by aggressors (hillbillys) trying to go into a "come along" type hold. 20 years ago, I had one drunk grab my left wrist as I had my open hands up in a defensive posture. He shoved his way in my door because he did not like my choice of bottle rockets launched from my third floor balcony. Apparently he couldn't watch Oprah in peace or something. I was lucky that night and he was not fortunately. The two officers that came got rather impatient trying to get him to wake up from under my dining room table. I did not use Won-Hyo of course, but, I did use a move from the system I was studying at the time. I have been fortunate not to have a rear naked choke attack. I'd like to keep that in the Do Jang myself. My common experience is not the same as others is the reminder I am getting from this conversation. Maybe that lends to the multiple interpretations concept of kata / hyung?

white belt