Kata and Forms...???

[Milt G.]

Hello,

Would like to get an idea of the importance that is placed on kata and forms by the various practitioners, and systems, represented here.

On another forum the subject was brought up. Looking for more input.

Kata/Forms:

1) Necessary?
2) Very useful?
3) Somewhat useful?
4) Slightly useful?
5) Totally useless?

If so, or not, why???

Trying to find the "general" consensus.

Thanks, in advance for your assistance and input!

Milt G.

 

[Danjo]

Necessary part of the total puzzle. What it develops, other things do not like shadow boxing. It's not the only thing one needs, but it is necessary to be well rounded ,IMO.

 

[just2kicku]

I say they are very necessary. That's where you can check stances and form. To do a kata right, is to have the basics. All katas, like techniques, are basics strung together to make a form. I don't think you can have one without the other and be balanced.

 

[Milt G.]

I say they are very necessary. That's where you can check stances and form. To do a kata right, is to have the basics. All katas, like techniques, are basics strung together to make a form. I don't think you can have one without the other and be balanced.

Hello,

Thanks for your reply.
I pretty much feel the same. Well put.

Milt G.

 

[marlon]

Can this thread be merged? it is in several places right now

Marlon

 

[Milt G.]

Can this thread be merged? it is in several places right now

Marlon

Hello,

That was my (the new guy's) fault...
Yes, a "merger" in this case, would be a good thing.

Thanks,
Milt G.

 

[marlon]

no worries. it is a good point to bring up. It is justeasier for eveyone if the responses and discussion is in one place BTW i have done the posting all over the place myself...everyone was nice about it

marlon

 

[Manny]

Hello,

Would like to get an idea of the importance that is placed on kata and forms by the various practitioners, and systems, represented here.

On another forum the subject was brought up. Looking for more input.

Kata/Forms:

1) Necessary?
2) Very useful?
3) Somewhat useful?
4) Slightly useful?
5) Totally useless?

If so, or not, why???

Trying to find the "general" consensus.

Thanks, in advance for your assistance and input!

Milt G.

1.-Necessary? Yes. They are necessary to comprehend the basics like stance,space,footwork,blocks,parries,punches,kicks etc.
2.-Very usseful? Not really, for me.

Kata or forms or poomsae are fundamental in the develop of the basics for the beginner and also a good aid to polish the techs of the advenced one.

Manny

 

[sifubry]

I think kata/forms are necessary for effective learning. That's not saying kata is actually fighting but its principles can be used in a confrontation. The linking of techniques together into a cohesive whole is what makes kata so wonderful.

And as said before, it helps with balance, stances, punches and breathing.

 

[KenpoDave]

Necessary. A wise man once told me that the katas are the textbooks of the system.

 

[Milt G.]

I think kata/forms are necessary for effective learning. That's not saying kata is actually fighting but its principles can be used in a confrontation. The linking of techniques together into a cohesive whole is what makes kata so wonderful.

And as said before, it helps with balance, stances, punches and breathing.

Hello,
I agree. The kata contain invaluable training opportunities. Not fighting, per se, but the keys to proper technique, movement and motion for martial training IMO.

Martial arts without kata, or forms is like having a car with little gasoline. Sure, you will move... But not as far, or as fast.

That is why I have the kata ranked as #1. Of course, there are many different thoughts and methods related to this topic. Can a short sequence of basics, or advanced movement be considered kata? Perhaps.

Thank you,
Milt G.

 

[Danjo]

Hello,
I agree. The kata contain invaluable training opportunities. Not fighting, per se, but the keys to proper technique, movement and motion for martial training IMO.

Martial arts without kata, or forms is like having a car with little gasoline. Sure, you will move... But not as far, or as fast.

That is why I have the kata ranked as #1. Of course, there are many different thoughts and methods related to this topic. Can a short sequence of basics, or advanced movement be considered kata? Perhaps.

Thank you,
Milt G.

Kihon/basics, were not originally practiced apart from kata. It wasn't until Karate became part of the P.E. in public schools, that the kihon was broken out and drilled separately. Partly, I suspect, to facilitate the teaching of large groups in uniform fashion. It used to be considered pointlees to teach kihon without the kata because the kata is what taught you how to move. After all, what good are basics if you don't know how to intigrate them with each other?

 

[MattJ]

Totally useless, and a waste of time, IMHO. Weight-training, bag-work, sparring......all galactically more useful.

 

[mwd0818]

Totally useless, and a waste of time, IMHO. Weight-training, bag-work, sparring......all galactically more useful.

As well as light saber training . . .

 

[Danjo]

Totally useless, and a waste of time, IMHO. Weight-training, bag-work, sparring......all galactically more useful.

Usfeul for what? Nothing wrong with them, but as one gets older, these things fade. One is more prone to injury from an exclusive diet of this type of training also. Sporting ability fades when one gets into one's 30's, however, perfection of form and technique can continue for decades longer. One may still need to be able to defend oneself long after one no longer competes. While bag-work, sparring and weight lifting can help, the way that one trains to fight using these training methods, keeps you in the mentality and habit of "squaring off" with someone and slugging it out. Bag-work and sparring alone can actually limit your abilities rather than enhance them.

 

[Milt G.]

Kihon/basics, were not originally practiced apart from kata. It wasn't until Karate became part of the P.E. in public schools, that the kihon was broken out and drilled separately. Partly, I suspect, to facilitate the teaching of large groups in uniform fashion. It used to be considered pointlees to teach kihon without the kata because the kata is what taught you how to move. After all, what good are basics if you don't know how to intigrate them with each other?

Hello, Mr. Weston.

You may be right. I would not know since I was not there. You are talking earlier 1900's, right?

They were seperate when I started in the late 1960's.

Thank you,
Milt G.

 

[Milt G.]

Totally useless, and a waste of time, IMHO. Weight-training, bag-work, sparring......all galactically more useful.

Hello,
Forms/kata... Useless...? A waste of time...?
Weight training, more useful?

Are you serious?
I have never heard them referred to in such a negative light.

Your number, in the continuum, must be #5, then...

Thank you for your input!
Milt G.

 

[Milt G.]

Mr. Weston,
Forgot to mention....

Congratulations on your promotion.
Well done!
Milt G.

 

[Danjo]

Hello, Mr. Weston.

You may be right. I would not know since I was not there. You are talking earlier 1900's, right?

They were seperate when I started in the late 1960's.

Thank you,
Milt G.

Yes, it was in the 1920's that they started being taught seperately according to Funakoshi.

 

[Danjo]

Mr. Weston,
Forgot to mention....

Congratulations on your promotion.
Well done!
Milt G.

Thank you sir.