KARATE'S RISING BLOCK & BOXING BY Terrible Tim 2X Heavyweight Boxing Champion of the World

[Terrible Tim Witherspoon]

 

[wckf92]

Was this karate video posted incorrectly here, in the wing chun forum?

 

[JowGaWolf]

Use that rising block as a forearm strike and you'll get more mileage from it as an offensive weapon. Use it to strike into the nose or under the chin. Use it against people who like to tuck the chin and you'll smash them in the face. It's excellent for close range fighting. I wish I could find my old sparring on VHS. The one thing you have to keep in mind with martial arts is that blocks can often be used as strike. If my memory is correct, boxers also use the fore arm in a similar manner to push fighters heads back.

 

[isshinryuronin]

Tim, it's likely you have a bit more boxing skill than I , but I want to respectfully comment from a karate perspective.

I think the upward block and the move you described are somewhat two different things. If I'm interpreting your movement correctly, you are demonstrating a "cover" meant to absorb the punch. It serves its purpose by just being there, static, in place. I'm sure you have used this to great effectiveness in the ring during your very distinguished career.

A karate block serves its purpose by being in motion, intercepting the punch and ideally angled to deflect it. And then it may be further extended towards the opponent to strike his face with the forearm (or even fist) as suggested in the above post.

From my perspective, covering is more effective when using boxing gloves. Bareknuckle or MMA type gloves, being smaller, can more easily thread the needle to pass thru such covering to hit the target. Accordingly, a more proactive defensive approach is useful.

Also, the karate block provides a better opportunity to then grab the punching arm and control it to facilitate your counter. This, of course, is not practical in boxing, illustrating some of the differences in the two sports.

Always great to see you on the forum. Oh, and BTW, you can post wherever you want .

 

[Terrible Tim Witherspoon]

Was this karate video posted incorrectly here, in the wing chun forum?

Yes it was

 

[Ivan]

Use that rising block as a forearm strike and you'll get more mileage from it as an offensive weapon. Use it to strike into the nose or under the chin. Use it against people who like to tuck the chin and you'll smash them in the face. It's excellent for close range fighting. I wish I could find my old sparring on VHS. The one thing you have to keep in mind with martial arts is that blocks can often be used as strike. If my memory is correct, boxers also use the fore arm in a similar manner to push fighters heads back.

I believe there was an old saying, that karate has no blocks, and that all it's blocking techniques should be used as strikes, whether it be in close quarters grappling, or striking at an opponent's limbs when they attempt to engage.

 

[JowGaWolf]

I believe there was an old saying, that karate has no blocks, and that all it's blocking techniques should be used as strikes, whether it be in close quarters grappling, or striking at an opponent's limbs when they attempt to engage.

In fighting, your goal is to hurt your opponent. The only way you can do that is to make physical contact and your opponent will try to avoid your efforts to physically make contact. So your opponent makes your job easier by hitting you. So instead of trying to avoid your opponent's contact, you should punish him when he makes contact since he's so willing to do it..

In most striking sports the body and head are the prize target. The concept that you mention highlights the 3rd target that most ignore. The limbs of the body (legs and arms) but more specifically the arms. Think of it this way, when a Muay Thai fighter attacks the legs, he's opponent will be greatly affected by it. After enough damage the opponent will no longer be able to fight. How quickly this occurs depends on the conditioning of that persons legs. That same reality exists for the arms. When your opponent strikes with their hands, then punish their arms, if you get good at it, then your opponent will no longer want to punch you and will no longer be able to fight.

Physically it's easier to attack the limbs, than the body or head. Your opponent will willingly give you his legs and arms for you to damage. Be good at those 2 things and you'll almost be unstoppable. If you ever meet someone with that ability then you should spar with them, so you can see first hand what that is like.

 

[Kung Fu Wang]

Physically it's easier to attack the limbs, than the body or head.

This is why I don't like the term "block".

When your oponent uses straight punch at you, you use hook punch to attack him. You use the inside of your arm (the sharp bone) to cut into his punching arm.

Your opponent attacks you. You attack him. You don't play defense. You play 100% offense.

 

[jks9199]

MODERATION NOTE:

This thread was relocated to the Boxing/Kickboxing forum as being more appropriate for the post. My apologies for not getting the note posted when the move was made.

jks9199
MT Administrator

 

[JowGaWolf]

Picture above: This would be similar to how martial arts would use the rising forearm. The picture here shows may weather doing a rising forearm and then delivering a body shot underneath. Both above and below.

This is an example of smashing the forearm into the the opponent.

Example of getting the forearm under the chin. You want to use forward movement and not rotating movement. Rotating will take the forearm out of position and free your opponent. Move foreward and it will push your opponents head backwards. Below is from Muay Thai.

The rising block is also good against circular fighting systems that have circular vertical strikes that target the top of the head. A lot of the strikes in Martial Arts are illegal in boxing and other combat sports. For example, downward strikes to the top of the head are illegal because the impact compresses the the bones in the neck. More specifically the disc in between the bones. For me being a kung fu practitioner gloves get in the way and fills space that other wise wouldn't be there, so boxers can do blocks that work with gloves on, but not so well with gloves off.

 

[Terrible Tim Witherspoon]

Use that rising block as a forearm strike and you'll get more mileage from it as an offensive weapon. Use it to strike into the nose or under the chin. Use it against people who like to tuck the chin and you'll smash them in the face. It's excellent for close range fighting. I wish I could find my old sparring on VHS. The one thing you have to keep in mind with martial arts is that blocks can often be used as strike. If my memory is correct, boxers also use the fore arm in a similar manner to push fighters heads back.

Wow i see exactly what you mean! Can be quite devastating!

 

[Terrible Tim Witherspoon]

View attachment 28865

View attachment 28866

View attachment 28867

Picture above: This would be similar to how martial arts would use the rising forearm. The picture here shows may weather doing a rising forearm and then delivering a body shot underneath. Both above and below.
View attachment 28869


This is an example of smashing the forearm into the the opponent.
View attachment 28868


Example of getting the forearm under the chin. You want to use forward movement and not rotating movement. Rotating will take the forearm out of position and free your opponent. Move foreward and it will push your opponents head backwards. Below is from Muay Thai.
View attachment 28870

The rising block is also good against circular fighting systems that have circular vertical strikes that target the top of the head. A lot of the strikes in Martial Arts are illegal in boxing and other combat sports. For example, downward strikes to the top of the head are illegal because the impact compresses the the bones in the neck. More specifically the disc in between the bones. For me being a kung fu practitioner gloves get in the way and fills space that other wise wouldn't be there, so boxers can do blocks that work with gloves on, but not so well with gloves off.

Awesome examples here!

 

[Terrible Tim Witherspoon]

This is why I don't like the term "block".

When your oponent uses straight punch at you, you use hook punch to attack him. You use the inside of your arm (the sharp bone) to cut into his punching arm.

Your opponent attacks you. You attack him. You don't play defense. You play 100% offense.

Do you have some examples to post? I would be interested in seeing how this is done. Thank you!

 

[Terrible Tim Witherspoon]

I believe there was an old saying, that karate has no blocks, and that all it's blocking techniques should be used as strikes, whether it be in close quarters grappling, or striking at an opponent's limbs when they attempt to engage.

I have also heard this

 

[Kung Fu Wang]

Do you have some examples to post? I would be interested in seeing how this is done. Thank you!

 

[Terrible Tim Witherspoon]

Tim, it's likely you have a bit more boxing skill than I , but I want to respectfully comment from a karate perspective.

I think the upward block and the move you described are somewhat two different things. If I'm interpreting your movement correctly, you are demonstrating a "cover" meant to absorb the punch. It serves its purpose by just being there, static, in place. I'm sure you have used this to great effectiveness in the ring during your very distinguished career.

A karate block serves its purpose by being in motion, intercepting the punch and ideally angled to deflect it. And then it may be further extended towards the opponent to strike his face with the forearm (or even fist) as suggested in the above post.

From my perspective, covering is more effective when using boxing gloves. Bareknuckle or MMA type gloves, being smaller, can more easily thread the needle to pass thru such covering to hit the target. Accordingly, a more proactive defensive approach is useful.

Also, the karate block provides a better opportunity to then grab the punching arm and control it to facilitate your counter. This, of course, is not practical in boxing, illustrating some of the differences in the two sports.

Always great to see you on the forum. Oh, and BTW, you can post wherever you want .

I have used that block in a similar way as a rising block, but yes primarily it is a covering block. I would be curious to see a Karateka try it in the way I suggest and as a deflecting block. It would be an interesting feedback video. Again, I don't want to offend any Karate practitioners but thought it would be an interesting conversation.

 

[isshinryuronin]

I don't want to offend any Karate practitioners but thought it would be an interesting conversation.

Using your move as a deflecting block may be similar to bong sao, a technique found in Wing Chun and perhaps Filipino fighting arts.

As a Master level "black belt" in your fighting art, your contributions should always be appreciated. Don't worry about offending anyone - we're used to it.

 

[JowGaWolf]

I have used that block in a similar way as a rising block, but yes primarily it is a covering block. I would be curious to see a Karateka try it in the way I suggest and as a deflecting block. It would be an interesting feedback video. Again, I don't want to offend any Karate practitioners but thought it would be an interesting conversation.

Lol we are a tough bunch. Don't worry agni offending us. You make it clear about how you are exploring other systems. The fact that you see value and interest in exploring some of what we do makes some of us happy. This is especially true since some think that what we train is out of date. You actually honor some of us because you try to analyze what you see and not just blow us off as irrelevant to "modern fighting." At least that's how I feel.

I don't know anyone here who doesn't like sharing their martial arts knowledge to people who are honestly exploring it.

 

[Terrible Tim Witherspoon]

Great nice example! Thank you for sharing!

 

[Terrible Tim Witherspoon]

Lol we are a tough bunch. Don't worry agni offending us. You make it clear about how you are exploring other systems. The fact that you see value and interest in exploring some of what we do makes some of us happy. This is especially true since some think that what we train is out of date. You actually honor some of us because you try to analyze what you see and not just blow us off as irrelevant to "modern fighting." At least that's how I feel.

I don't know anyone here who doesn't like sharing their martial arts knowledge to people who are honestly exploring it.

I like comparing the arts. There is much I can learn from all of you. I really like the discussions and comparing our notes. Here is a heads up, I am going to be learning Chi Sao from a very well known Wing Chun master. This should be interesting. Then there is an extremely popular Karate Youtuber that is going to teach me how to break broads. I look forward to doing these videos.