I'm guessing that shotokan might be more effective from a defence point of view, given than TKD might be limited if somebody gets in close. Would that be a fair comment?
This a myth, and a complete falsehood. Taekwondo is not limited in anyway in close quarters combat. Only those who are not trained in Taekwondo (or their training is incomplete) make that assumption based on appearances and reputation of TKD kicking. They think that kicks can not be used when close to an opponent (false), and that Taekwondo does not contain devastating hand strikes, joint locks, pressure points, etc. (and that would be false as well).
If it's self defence your after then your best bet is Karate. Because you might be only lucky enough to find Tkd instructor who concentrates self defence, where as in Karate it's usually compulsory.
This would be an incorrect notion to suggest that Karate would be better for self defense than Taekwondo. Either one would work fine provided you get proper training, and put forth the effort to learn the art correctly. The only smidgen of truth to this quote is that there are so many "look-alike" TKD schools that don't really know what they are teaching (McDojangs as some call them), and those that are specifically sport oriented. If you are looking for self defense, simply be sure that the instructor is qualified, and that the school's curriculum has a fair balance of self defense training.
Make no mistake, TKD is built around not only the same technical toolkit but the same strategic agenda as karate: the intention is, every move either sets up the finish or is itself the finish.
I agree. Although I would say the "toolkit" is slightly different in some cases, the core substance of the two are very similar.
Sure, kicking practice is emphasized, but that doesn't mean that kicking is more important than—or even as important as—hand techs.
Exile is correct here as well. TKD places the emphasis on kicking because of the unique philosophy of TKD which says that it is better to use the longer reach of the legs (when applicable) in order to be able to strike first and keep your opponent at a safe distance where they have difficulty striking you. Also the strength and power of the legs over the arms is evident (try bench pressing as much with your arms as you do with your legs). The mistake is made when anyone, in Taekwondo or not, believes that this favored technique of kicking should replace hand strikes, or grappling completely, thus reducing or eliminating sufficient training time in the other areas.
The idea in TKD practice is that kicking is harder than hand techniques,
... it's also harder for most of us to control the force/angle/impact surface of a kick, because we use kicks much less in ordinary life than we do hand/arm movements which have martial content. So kicking requires more practice.
This is true, and a point that I have heard Bill 'Superfoot' Wallace make several times in his seminars. We are much more adept, coordinated, and skilled with our hands than our feet. If we are going to make a useful weapon out of our feet, then we need to put a lot more time in training them, but other areas of training should not suffer for it.
But if you look at TKD hyungs,.... you'll find that there are usually four or five times as many hand techs as leg techs.
This is a good point that many people, who claim TKD is all kicks, often overlook. I know what a Taekwondo class typically consists of, and it is not just kicking from start to finish.
I would say that from what I personaly have seen that karate, especialy shobayashi shorin ryu is more suited to self defence then what I have seen offerd as teakwan do . this is not to say that there are not Taikwan do instructors out there that do not teach good self defence.
First of all, it is "Taekwondo" (or Tae Kwon Do, or Taekwon-do). By your post, you have admitted that your opinion is based on what you have personally seen of TKD and Karate. It is apparent that you have seen some good Karate schools, and some not so good TKD schools. That is, of course, not a reflection of the art itself, just the sampling of schools and instructors you have observed.
my tkd instructor only teachs us kicks and boxing punches for tkd or karate punches dont do **** in a street fight,
009abz, your post started off with a good point, and ended with a good point, but this part in the middle is an absolute falsehood, and misinformed assessment. Both Taekwondo and Karate contain hand strikes and punches that are very fast, very powerful, and very effective in the street (first hand experience speaking here). I don't know if this statement is your own opinion, or if you are just parroting what your instructor tells you, but before you just blindly accept a sweeping statement like that, I suggest you do some research and ask a variety of experts. Many would be more than happy to give you (or your instructor) a demonstration of why that statement is incorrect.
a boxers punch is faster and stronger and better all up then a tkd or karate punch ecpecally in a street fight
No disrespect intended to your instructor, but I believe I could match my age, years of training, experience, and rank in Taekwondo (among other certification in other variations), but that would do little good. What is important is the proof of a statement. Let's start with "a boxer's punch is faster... than a tkd or karate punch." Where is the scientific proof of that? Who conducted the tests and who were the participants? I would contend that many Taekwondoists (such as myself) have just as fast of a hand strike as any boxer.
Next statement, "a boxer's punch is stronger than a tkd or karate punch." Again, where is the proof of this? Boxers tend to fight with gloves on and angle their punches for a specific type of knock-out. While I can duplicate that, it is not typically the aim of a Taekwondoist (or in Karate) to jolt the brain and cause cerebral hemorrhaging. TKD is designed to destroy the target, and pinpoint specific vulnerable spots for maximum effect. I break multiple boards with my bare handed punches (as well as other hand strikes) - - something that I rarely see a boxer be able to duplicate without breaking the bones in their hand. Unless they have trained in the Martial Art (such as Muhammad Ali who studied Taekwondo), they are taught to punch differently for different effect, but I have never seen a study that proves their punch is "stronger."
Finally, the allegation that a Boxer's punch is better in a street fight is absolutely an unfounded opinion. Better in what way? When a TKD or Karate expert punches an opponent in the street, the opponent is injured, damaged, even downed from one strike. Boxer's might match that, but you can not get "better" than that. Besides, you should know that the internal mechanics, muscle contractions, and reactionary forces of a Martial Art strike is very different from that of a Boxer. We are different for a reason, and there is no sense in my stepping backwards in the evolutionary development to train the way a boxer punches, and abandon the way I punch since my punches are just as fast, powerful, and effective (if not more-so), and for all the right reasons of physical mechanics and fight strategy for self defense in the street - - not in the ring.
hmmm well it is said that no one hits harder then a boxer.
Here again, I would simply ask, "who has said that, and where is the proof?"
think about the outcome of two great sports combining the hand techniques of boxing and Kicking of TKD, what kind of force will it have.
No need to combine boxing hand skills with TKD since we already have the force we need the way we do it. Yes, it would advantage a boxer to know the kicking power of TKD, but the trade-off you suggest is of no benefit to Taekwondo. I study, watch and learn how boxers punch and fight so that I know how to counter their movements, just like when Buster Douglas beat the unstoppable Mike Tyson. Not that he used Taekwondo, but you have to study a fighter to find their weak points, but that does not mean that you fight like them. I have no intention of fighting like a boxer. Not to be disrespectful, or boasting, but my training is beyond that point.
