Karate Question

[Headhunter]

Sorry, but I stopped reading once I got to this point. It is not practical to have your fist on your hip don't nothing. It's a dead hand. What is practical (if it's not performing hikite) is to have it guarding your chin, like boxers, who it has been shown have the most powerful punches.

Chambering your hand on your hip is part of the utter nonsense that was trotted out in the 80s and before (along with "blocks"). If people still believe this then they don't understand the very art they claim to teach.

What I've always been told in pretty much all styles of karate I've done is it's not just bringing the elbow to your hip it's used as a rear elbow If someone is coming up behind you. So you hit the guy in front of you, guy comes from behind shoot your elbow into his stomach.

 

[DaveB]

This

I'm sorry if I offended you, but this thread stands as testament to the way in which he argued and the post in which he announced his departure was nothing short of a hissy fit calling folks who disagreed with him idiots.

One can only learn so much from a person who won't debate the flaws in his position because if you don't think like him your an idiot.

 

[DaveB]

What I've always been told in pretty much all styles of karate I've done is it's not just bringing the elbow to your hip it's used as a rear elbow If someone is coming up behind you. So you hit the guy in front of you, guy comes from behind shoot your elbow into his stomach.

I actually think that one of the applications of shuto uke is an elbow strike to the "rear".

In kanku Dai and hiean nidan there is a punch-kick to the back followed by dropping your body weight back and shutoing to the front. Well if you consider the body weight as the direction your hitting then the knife hand motion functions as a pull and the elbow of the hikite an elbow strike with your full body weight behind it.

This fits the pattern, since every other simultaneous kick-punch in the kata is followed by a large overt elbow strike.

 

[Tez3]

I'm sorry if I offended you, but this thread stands as testament to the way in which he argued and the post in which he announced his departure was nothing short of a hissy fit calling folks who disagreed with him idiots.

One can only learn so much from a person who won't debate the flaws in his position because if you don't think like him your an idiot.

I'm not offended just didn't see the point. Where's the post where he announced his departure from here, all I saw was where he said he'd stopped reading? I didn't see any hissy fit.

 

[DaveB]

Different thread

 

[Tez3]

Different thread

Then it's nothing to do with this.

 

[DaveB]

Then it's nothing to do with this.

Except that he won't be replying to a video about his point. And since I was disagreeing with him I was no doubt included in the cast of idiots he was escaping from. He near enough said as much in this thread so I'll have to disagree with you on that one.

No, SD and fighting are the same apparently, so perhaps you can explain how the SD skills Threat Awareness & Evaluation, verbal de-escalation and The Fence are fighting skills?

Or how a mugger holding a knife in your face, or a wife being strangled by her abusive husband, or a woman who has been dragged into an alley by her hair by a sexual predator isn't self defence anymore, because it's not a consensual fight, and only consensual fighting is SD.

Or explain how it is only SD if there are only two on you, and no weapons, and you are stood five feet apart throwing exploratory jabs to test weakness in your opponents response that could be exploited later in the fight, because consensual fighting and SD from non consensual criminal violence are the something aren't they? So if it's not one, it can't be the other because they are the same.

Can you do that for me, smart ****?

No you cant, because they aren't the same clever ****. Go **** yourself. I'm sick of you and all the other lovely idiots on this board, and I'm done with MT.

Goodbye.

 

[Tez3]

Except that he won't be replying to a video about his point. And since I was disagreeing with him I was no doubt included in the cast of idiots he was escaping from. He near enough said as much in this thread so I'll have to disagree with you on that one.

Many people haven't read that thread, I hadn't so had no idea what you are talking about so yes it was pointless saying that. Much better to have ignored it and not let someone get under your skin which he obviously has. Perhaps if you don't like people disagreeing with you, you shouldn't post here either. Paul's posts have always be fine, I see no reason to fret just because he disagreed with you. He didn't call you an idiot, he called the idiots on that thread idiots, perhaps you should look at all their posts on other threads before passing judgement.

 

[Gerry Seymour]

I actually think that one of the applications of shuto uke is an elbow strike to the "rear".

In kanku Dai and hiean nidan there is a punch-kick to the back followed by dropping your body weight back and shutoing to the front. Well if you consider the body weight as the direction your hitting then the knife hand motion functions as a pull and the elbow of the hikite an elbow strike with your full body weight behind it.

This fits the pattern, since every other simultaneous kick-punch in the kata is followed by a large overt elbow strike.

I'm not a karateka, so take my opinions here with a grain of salt. Perhaps an entire salt lick.

I've always had the following view of Karate kata, when investigating them (an intellectual pursuit for me). They can be used/understood a number of ways. They do teach some actual specific movement combinations. They also seem to use some exaggerated movements, which I believe may be there simply to get a certain subset of students to actually move enough. The kata also appear to be helping the student memorize some basic movement patterns. And many of the movements that are being "memorized" (more correctly involves things like engraining and myelin development) are useful for a number of purposes - hence the description of this hand-to-hip as chambering, elbowing, pulling in, etc. The base movement can be used for all of those things, and probably a few others. The same goes for many of the other movements represented. I also see instructors often using kata to bring attention to finer details. This was probably originally done specifically to help students develop awareness of their bodies (proprioception, etc.), though I'm not sure how many instructors consciously use this attention to detail for this purpose.

When I added some kata to my curriculum a couple of years ago, I worked toward some of these ends (though not all).

 

[hoshin1600]

I'm not a karateka, so take my opinions here with a grain of salt. Perhaps an entire salt lick.

I've always had the following view of Karate kata, when investigating them (an intellectual pursuit for me). They can be used/understood a number of ways. They do teach some actual specific movement combinations. They also seem to use some exaggerated movements, which I believe may be there simply to get a certain subset of students to actually move enough. The kata also appear to be helping the student memorize some basic movement patterns. And many of the movements that are being "memorized" (more correctly involves things like engraining and myelin development) are useful for a number of purposes - hence the description of this hand-to-hip as chambering, elbowing, pulling in, etc. The base movement can be used for all of those things, and probably a few others. The same goes for many of the other movements represented. I also see instructors often using kata to bring attention to finer details. This was probably originally done specifically to help students develop awareness of their bodies (proprioception, etc.), though I'm not sure how many instructors consciously use this attention to detail for this purpose.

When I added some kata to my curriculum a couple of years ago, I worked toward some of these ends (though not all).

I agree. The only thing I would add is that sometimes the exaggeration is to show lines of force. If the bunkai has a small action the exaggeration can show you the direction of the action that would otherwise be imperceptible.

 

[oftheherd1]

What I've always been told in pretty much all styles of karate I've done is it's not just bringing the elbow to your hip it's used as a rear elbow If someone is coming up behind you. So you hit the guy in front of you, guy comes from behind shoot your elbow into his stomach.

That is what I was taught in the mid-60s as well, when studying TKD. Also that it was an action-reaction thing, which added power to both movements.

 

[Gerry Seymour]

I agree. The only thing I would add is that sometimes the exaggeration is to show lines of force. If the bunkai has a small action the exaggeration can show you the direction of the action that would otherwise be imperceptible.

This exaggeration is one thing I didn't incorporate in my kata, and sometimes wish I had. My students seem inclined to fix that problem for me in some places, when they practice the kata.