Karate or ju jitsu

[Headhunter]

I didn't know kickboxing had a belt system, anyway I would take up the Jiu Jitsu since taking karate will basically just show you a different flavor of what you already been doing.

Jiu Jitsu would be an entirely new experience for you.

Don't agree with that. Kickboxing has the basic punches and kicks and knees. But in karate there are a lot more moves than kickboxing. Karate has chops, palm strikes, back fists and more circular movements. Plus it has a different defence system with the blocks they use. Both are great styles but are different

 

[Headhunter]

That would depend how and where you got it. Some schools might be belt factories but with some schools and the styles they teach it makes a big difference. To earn a BJJ black belt for instance, you aren't going to do so without putting in your time and really working hard. Earning a black belt in BJJ is to say the least admirable.

There are belt factories in jiu jitsu to. Someone I know got a black belt after training for a year another got one after training for 2 years with a satellite school

 

[Tony Dismukes]

There are belt factories in jiu jitsu to. Someone I know got a black belt after training for a year another got one after training for 2 years with a satellite school

I'm pretty confident in saying that wasn't BJJ they were training in.

 

[Headhunter]

I'm pretty confident in saying that wasn't BJJ they were training in.

It was I've seen the certificate

 

[Tony Dismukes]

There are belt factories in jiu jitsu to. Someone I know got a black belt after training for a year another got one after training for 2 years with a satellite school

I'm pretty confident in saying that wasn't BJJ they were training in.

It was I've seen the certificate

If there was anyone in the world who earned a legit BJJ black belt with only a year of training, I would almost certainly know about it. It would be the talk of the BJJ community worldwide. The fastest legit BJJ black belt I know of is probably BJ Penn, who was a natural prodigy, training pretty much full time, and winning world championships - and he took 3 years.

Who is the instructor who supposedly promoted your friend to black belt in a year?

 

[Headhunter]

If there was anyone in the world who earned a legit BJJ black belt with only a year of training, I would almost certainly know about it. It would be the talk of the BJJ community worldwide. The fastest legit BJJ black belt I know of is probably BJ Penn, who was a natural prodigy, training pretty much full time, and winning world championships - and he took 3 years.

Who is the instructor who supposedly promoted your friend to black belt in a year?

I think there's no doubt that it wasn't a legitimate one and I never claimed it was my point was that bjj places can still be belt factories and no I don't remember the name and I wouldn't say it here anyway as I don't want to trash anyone's reputation but I know he's a black belt under braulio estima

 

[Gerry Seymour]

If there was anyone in the world who earned a legit BJJ black belt with only a year of training, I would almost certainly know about it. It would be the talk of the BJJ community worldwide. The fastest legit BJJ black belt I know of is probably BJ Penn, who was a natural prodigy, training pretty much full time, and winning world championships - and he took 3 years.

Who is the instructor who supposedly promoted your friend to black belt in a year?

Ah, there's that word "legitimate". They probably trained in "BJJ" (with air quotes), rather than a legitimate (I dislike the word, but it's appropriate here) line of the art.

 

[Tony Dismukes]

I think there's no doubt that it wasn't a legitimate one and I never claimed it was

By "legitimate", in this case I mean a BJJ rank officially awarded by someone who was qualified to do so. Typically a 2nd degree BB rank is required to promote someone to black belt in BJJ. (BJJ black belts start as "zero degrees", so a second degree black belt is normally someone who has been a black belt for at least 6 years. The promoting instructor should have a confirmed lineage going back to either Carlos/George/Helio Gracie or Luiz Franca. For example, I was promoted by Mike O'Donnell and Carlson Gracie Jr., Mike was promoted by Carlson Jr. Carlson Jr was promoted by Carlson Gracie Sr, Carlson Gracie Sr was promoted by Carlos Gracie.

my point was that bjj places can still be belt factories

The BJJ community monitors this sort of thing pretty closely and applies a lot of pressure to maintain standards. If there was someone handing out black belts for a year of training, there would be major worldwide discussion and questions being directed towards the instructor's instructor. Unless the instructor handed the promotion out secretly I have a hard time imagining how such an event would avoid notice. Since you say you've actually seen the rank certificate, I'm not sure how it could be such a big secret.

I don't remember the name and I wouldn't say it here anyway as I don't want to trash anyone's reputation but I know he's a black belt under braulio estima

I understand not wanting to publicly talk trash about anyone, but if you happen to remember the name, would you consider sending me a private message? I'm thinking there's a strong probability that someone here (your friend or his instructor) is showing off forged credentials. I have yet to encounter a BJJ belt factory, but fake BJJ black belts pop up periodically.

 

[Tony Dismukes]

Ah, there's that word "legitimate". They probably trained in "BJJ" (with air quotes), rather than a legitimate (I dislike the word, but it's appropriate here) line of the art.

Yeah, you occasionally come across an instructor who holds a black belt in "Generic Bob's Karate Kung Fu Jutsu Do" who has a dojo, then picks up a blue belt in BJJ, advertises themselves as being a student of some legit BJJ instructor and starts offering classes in BJJ, but still wears their "Generic Bob's" black belt in all the pictures on their website (and sometimes in their BJJ classes, which is a big no-no and will get them publicly shamed). It's possible that Headhunter's friend was promoted by such a person.

 

[Gerry Seymour]

Yeah, you occasionally come across an instructor who holds a black belt in "Generic Bob's Karate Kung Fu Jutsu Do" who has a dojo, then picks up a blue belt in BJJ, advertises themselves as being a student of some legit BJJ instructor and starts offering classes in BJJ, but still wears their "Generic Bob's" black belt in all the pictures on their website (and sometimes in their BJJ classes, which is a big no-no and will get them publicly shamed). It's possible that Headhunter's friend was promoted by such a person.

I hadn't even considered that possibility. It need not even be a "Bob's Generic" BB. Heck, if I took my hard-earned NGA BB and wore it while teaching BJJ (assuming I picked up the Blue you mentioned), that would be a lie. I know a guy who teaches both NGA (something-degree BB) and BJJ (currently Brown, I think). He changes belts between classes.

Side note: I love watching him move in his NGA techniques - a clear influence of some of the "slipping" movement used in BJJ.

 

[Tony Dismukes]

I hadn't even considered that possibility. It need not even be a "Bob's Generic" BB. Heck, if I took my hard-earned NGA BB and wore it while teaching BJJ (assuming I picked up the Blue you mentioned), that would be a lie. I know a guy who teaches both NGA (something-degree BB) and BJJ (currently Brown, I think). He changes belts between classes.

Side note: I love watching him move in his NGA techniques - a clear influence of some of the "slipping" movement used in BJJ.

Yeah, I know people who have schools and legitimate teaching ranks in other styles who added BJJ to their curriculum. To the best of my knowledge, they were very conscious to wear the appropriate belt when teaching BJJ class. Doing otherwise leads to grief.

 

[JP3]

Although a black belt amounts to not much. Maybe just keep training. No offense intended.

But Bill, we' would say that from our somewhat lofty (read old and moldy) perspective of many, many years and the long-ago goal of 1st dan being in the bag quite a few decades ago. Our perspective has changed a bit from when we first went 'allokin' wouldn't you say?

Here's what I think on the O/P. If you want to continue to work on the real polish and deeper understanding of the striking, get intot he traditional karate, if that's what it is. If however, you are wanting to cover up some holes in the game you presently have, to use a MMA term, maybe the jujutsu would be a good thing. It's all a prioritization question.

 

[Bill Mattocks]

That would depend how and where you got it. Some schools might be belt factories but with some schools and the styles they teach it makes a big difference. To earn a BJJ black belt for instance, you aren't going to do so without putting in your time and really working hard. Earning a black belt in BJJ is to say the least admirable.

Agreed. It also doesn't represent the end of training, does it? My suggestion was that rather than looking around for something different, in anticipation that 'black belt' represents the end of the training in any given style, it might be more advantageous to keep training in the style one has devoted so much time to.

 

[Bill Mattocks]

But Bill, we' would say that from our somewhat lofty (read old and moldy) perspective of many, many years and the long-ago goal of 1st dan being in the bag quite a few decades ago. Our perspective has changed a bit from when we first went 'allokin' wouldn't you say?

Here's what I think on the O/P. If you want to continue to work on the real polish and deeper understanding of the striking, get intot he traditional karate, if that's what it is. If however, you are wanting to cover up some holes in the game you presently have, to use a MMA term, maybe the jujutsu would be a good thing. It's all a prioritization question.

It was merely my attempt to note the often-seen predilection of people to assume that their own training, whatever it is, is somehow lacking, and that once they have reached some basic level of competency, it is time for them to 'round out' their knowledge by becoming equally worthless in another style. Oops, I meant 'proficient' not 'worthless'.

My advice to such folks is to keep training. Just keep training.

 

[JP3]

It was merely my attempt to note the often-seen predilection of people to assume that their own training, whatever it is, is somehow lacking, and that once they have reached some basic level of competency, it is time for them to 'round out' their knowledge by becoming equally worthless in another style. Oops, I meant 'proficient' not 'worthless'.

My advice to such folks is to keep training. Just keep training.

Good point and totally agree. A little knowledge can be dangerous. To oneself.

 

[PhotonGuy]

There are belt factories in jiu jitsu to. Someone I know got a black belt after training for a year another got one after training for 2 years with a satellite school

If a school teaches Gracie Jiu Jitsu and they use the Gracie name than they aren't going to get away with being a belt factory. If a school says they teach Brazilian Jiu Jitsu they might or might not be the real deal although from what I've seen usually they are real but if they use the Gracie name than you know for sure they teach the real thing.

 

[PhotonGuy]

If there was anyone in the world who earned a legit BJJ black belt with only a year of training, I would almost certainly know about it. It would be the talk of the BJJ community worldwide. The fastest legit BJJ black belt I know of is probably BJ Penn, who was a natural prodigy, training pretty much full time, and winning world championships - and he took 3 years.

So another words, BJ Penn would be the Ernie Reyes Jr. of BJJ.

 

[PhotonGuy]

Agreed. It also doesn't represent the end of training, does it? My suggestion was that rather than looking around for something different, in anticipation that 'black belt' represents the end of the training in any given style, it might be more advantageous to keep training in the style one has devoted so much time to.

On the contrary black belt is just the beginning. I would say after earning a black belt that's when the real training begins. After you make black belt it doesn't get easier it gets harder. The impression I get from the OP is that they want to keep training in kickboxing but also to cross train in other styles to get more of an overall martial arts background. After you earn a black belt in your first style it can be a time to start exploring other styles while still training in your first style or you might start exploring other styles sometime before or after earning your first black belt. To me, it sounds like the OP wants to start exploring other styles since they're getting close to earning a black belt in their first style but they want to keep training in their first style after they earn a black belt in it.

 

[PhotonGuy]

Good point and totally agree. A little knowledge can be dangerous. To oneself.

If a little bit of knowledge can be dangerous, how about a lot?

 

[Bill Mattocks]

On the contrary black belt is just the beginning. I would say after earning a black belt that's when the real training begins. After you make black belt it doesn't get easier it gets harder.

I agree. I'm sorry if you got the impression that I didn't think exactly what you just said.

The impression I get from the OP is that they want to keep training in kickboxing but also to cross train in other styles to get more of an overall martial arts background.

Yes, I understand that's what the OP wants. I disagree with the OP that going after crosstraining at this stage is a very good idea.

After you earn a black belt in your first style it can be a time to start exploring other styles while still training in your first style or you might start exploring other styles sometime before or after earning your first black belt.

It can be, but I don't think it's a good idea in general. I think it's a good time to knuckle down and work harder in one's own style.

To me, it sounds like the OP wants to start exploring other styles since they're getting close to earning a black belt in their first style but they want to keep training in their first style after they earn a black belt in it.

I learned how to say "Where is the bathroom" in Japanese. Time to start learning to say it in Spanish? A little cross-training? Uh, no. Time to learn some more Japanese. Just my 2 cents.