Karate-Do versus TKD versus Korean karate

[Last Fearner]

Fantastic, Stoneheart. I look forward to your reply. I hope things turn out alright with your family emergency!

Before you reply, let me say that I understand much of what you posted is true from a certain perspective. It mostly depends on a person's definition of what "Taekwondo" is, where it comes from, and what it encompasses. I think it is a question of "which Taekwondo" is a person talking about: the Taekwon-do that General Choi claimed as his own creation, the Tae Kwon Do that mainstream western culture has accepted as splintered organizations, sport competiton, fitness craze, "Kiddie Karate," with some self defense schools, or the Taekwondo of Korea's national Martial Art which is also presented as a "national sport."

Deep down, I prefer the later definition of a traditional, historical, Korean based national Martial Art which is complete in, and of itself, but grows and shares knowledge and improved skills as any Martial Art program should. The core knowlege comes from more than 2000 years of historical struggle of a people to survive, and its new name only reflects a rebirth, and re-emergence of the old. It is my understanding that this was the intention of the Korean government to organize what they had before the 20th century, rename it, and make it one national Art. General Choi claims to have submitted the name for this purpose, but then takes the same name for exclusive use of his own method of teaching, while others have taken it to mean something totally different. This is in my opinion - - looking forward to hearing yours.

CM D. J. Eisenhart

 

[jujutsu_indonesia]

from your information I conclude that present day taekwondo is a repackaged and modernized korean version of the common martial arts of east asian people.

I say "east asian people" because I am sure those kicks, punches and blocks are common in korea, china and japan LONG BEFORE the modern states of Republic of Korea, People's Republic of China and Kingdom of Japan came into being..

the techniques are ancient, 2000 years old maybe, but the packaging (organization) is less than 100 years old.

is this an acceptable conclusion, Mr. Eisenhart?

(btw, are you german? Eisenhart could be translated as "iron heart" )

 

[Last Fearner]

. . . the techniques are ancient, 2000 years old maybe, but the packaging (organization) is less than 100 years old.

is this an acceptable conclusion, Mr. Eisenhart?

I would say that this is an acceptable conclusion. Most of the present day skills, and the concept of a "Martial Art" way of life existed throughout Asia, in many cases separate from one another, yet most likely influenced by each other from further back than 5,000 years. Korea's ancient Martial Art "package" shared common traits with others, but differed in many ways. Today's "packaging" of Taekwondo can be viewed as many things. Modern influences of other Martial Art methods, sports, fitness, or it can be viewed as a cleansing of excessive outside influence, and a "getting back to the roots" of Korean Martial Art.

(btw, are you german? Eisenhart could be translated as "iron heart" )

Yes, both my father and mother had German ancestors, but my mother may have also had some English & Cherokee ancestors (I'm still researching that). Only a few generations back on my father's side, my German Ancestors came from Germany to Michigan. "Isen" is the German word for iron, and "hertz" is the word for heart. The family name can mean either "iron heart" or "strong heart" with multiple meanings from passionate and caring, to healthy and athletic, or strong willed. I'm a bit of all of those! :lookie:

Thanks for you comments,
CM D. J. Eisenhart

 

[jujutsu_indonesia]

gutten abend herr Eisenhart wie geht's? gutt I hope

I am happy that a discussion about TKD history between a Korean martial artist (you) and Japanese martial artist (me) can be very friendly and civil.

As a guy from the "Japanese" side, if I see things objectively, then I must say that modern TKD does receive a huge amount of influence from Japanese martial arts. But, from my understanding, I think those Korean masters in the 60s and 70s took many aspects from the Japanese arts simply to help them understand more about how the Japanese arts themselves are structured. They want to copy the structure ("packaging") not really the techniques ("contents"). Because they already have the techniques for years, but without the structure to put them together.

That's why TKD uses forms/kata/patterns and the belt ranking systems, but the techniques themselves, cannot be considered as simply carbon copies of Japanese techniques. Rather, I'd say that all those blocks, kicks and punches has been practiced in Korea before Shotokan Karate was even created by Funakoshi's students.

I have several years of TKD training before switching to Japanese arts, that's why I have develop an appreciation of all those flashy kicks!