Pacificshore
Purple Belt
Budo International No.23-Article on Kara-Ho
Martial Art Sept 2003-Article on Kara-Ho
Inside Kung-fu June 2003-Article on Kara-Ho
Martial Art Sept 2003-Article on Kara-Ho
Inside Kung-fu June 2003-Article on Kara-Ho
K
Karazenpo
Guest
Please let me clear this up once and for all. Professor Nick Cerio is a "George Pesare Black Belt"- period. Grandmaster Pesare is the instructor who started him off in Kempo. He is the instructor Professor Cerio spent the most time in grade with and Gm. Pesare is the one who brought him through the ranks to Black Belt in Karazenpo Go Shinjutsu. Just look at Nick Cerio's Kenpo-it has Karazenpo written all over it, sure, it's the Professor's self expression of the art but it's still Karazenpo. Why do people think that after you make your black belt if you spend a few weeks here and there over several years, this person is now your 'identity', listed as your instructor with no mention of the man who gave you your foundation, the one who set you on the proper course, who molded you into what you are today. Now, did Professor Cerio learns some 'things' from Professor Chow?-absolutely. Was he one of the people he studied with? Yes, but let's not embellish that. Professor Cerio told me himself many years ago that George Pesare gave him his 'identity'. Nick Cerio's Kenpo is a 'SUBSYSTEM' of Karazenpo Go Shinjutsu and if someone disputes that then they will end up with egg on their face because it's a fact! So what is wrong with giving credit where its due rather than perpetuate these myths? Just like stating Professor Chow studied Kung Fu from his father, a Buddhist priest! I think its about time we started purporting the facts and not the fantasy of the martial arts. Even if you don't like your instructor for personal reasons, that is not any reason to make up an altered lineage. If you are promoted by someone else later, use a sidebar or something but never forget your true roots because that is why you are here today! Respectfully submitted, Shihan Joe Shuras
K
Kempo Guy
Guest
I trained in Kara Ho (Sam Kuoha's version) for about three years. I've also been exposed to Prof. Chow's Kempo from a couple of other instructors (not Bill Chun) as well (which occured after my experience with Kara Ho). All in all, I trained in Kempo for about eight years... FWIW, I also studied AKK for about two years.
Not much...
One of the primary differences is the use of terminology. Kara Ho (Kuoha's style) does not use scientific principles to explain techniques. They tend to use terminology akin to Aikido (Shin Shin Toitsu / Ki Society) such as "extend ki", "keep one point" etc. They do not have fancy names for techniques either, for instance their first group of techniques are called "Basic techniques 1- 5".
They use a lot of high kicks, jumping kicks, spinning kicks etc. I think these are a carry over from Kuoha's earlier days in TKD (or related style).
There are also a lot more weaponry taught as well, starting with the Bo, Sai, Nunchaku, Tonfa, Butterfly knives etc.
The forms are very long and are reminiscent of Shaolin Long Fist / Wushu forms (imho).
There are too many differences to mention...
Don't know (I think only Kuoha knows). They are taught in groups, for instance "Basic", "Advanced", "Knife", "Club", "Grab arts" etc. There are generally five techniques per group (at least at the time I trained). There are also some techniques called "Prof. Chow's techniques" which there are twelve or so... (perhaps more). As you progress they added techniques 6 - 10 to the Grab arts etc. as well.
Having said all this, I was taught a very different curriculum from other teachers (students of Prof. Chow, not associated with Kuoha). For instance there were not many set techniques, rather "lines" similar to Tan Tui of Northern Shaolin. We were taught one primary form (although I was told there were a couple more) that taught the "master principles" of the art. This form when done full speed was reminiscent of "shadow boxing", except done in a straight line (except for slight angling as you slip punches etc.). No blocks were taught...
Oh yeah, almost forgot, once the forms were learned they were pretty much practiced as a two-person drill. And they encouraged us to look for our own applications of the movements in the form.
And finally, they were BIG on conditioning, i.e. physical conditioning and conditioning of 'weapons' (knuckles, legs etc.)
There's more but I've got to go...
If you have further questions, please feel free to email me or post them here.
KG
OP
OP
kkbb
Guest
That is the kind of info I was looking for.:asian:
K
Kempo Guy
Guest
Glad I could be of service.
KG
KG
What one has to understand is that Kara-ho has evolved and changed many times between the time Prof. Chow started his own school in the late 40s and his death in 1987.
Even the name of the system has changed many times. Kenpo Jiu jutsu, Kenpo Karate, Chinese Kenpo, Goshin Jutsu Kai Kenpo, Shaolin Kenpo, Thunderbolt Karate, Dian Hsuhe Kara-ho Kenpo, Chinese Kempo of Kara-ho Karate.
His early students from the 40s like Adriano Emperado and Ed Parker learned a system very close to Mitose's Kenpo Jiu Jutsu, but with less emphasis on takedowns and more attention to rapid fire multiple hand strikes. During this time Chow did not teach the 1 kata Mitose had taught (Naihanchi Shodan).
His notable students from the 50s would be Ralph Castro and Bill Chun Sr. Ralph Castro trained to brown belt, and then got his black belt from Ed Parker when he moved to the mainland. When Chow stopped using the name "Shaolin Kenpo" he gave permission to Castro to continue using the name. Bill Chun kept the name "Goshin Jutsu Kai Kenpo" that Chow had used before Kara-ho.
The most drastic changes or additions to Karo-ho came as a result of Sam Alama Kuoha's association with Chow in the 80s. Kuoha had originally trained in the 60s with a student of Chow's, named Charles Kuihana. When Kuoha moved to the mainland in the late 60s he trained with several martial artists. He trained in a Kajukenbo offshoot receiving a black belt. He trained with Tigi Mataali, who claimed to be a student of Prof. Chow. He also trained in tae kwon do with Jun Chong, and aikido with John Damian.
Kuoha added aspects of all these arts into the Kara-ho that he teaches. He says that all these additions were approved by Professor Chow. I tend to believe this, since I have seen videos of Kuoha and some of his students training with Prof. Chow.
Now there are many faces of Kara-ho. When Prof. Chow was alive many, many, people went to Hawaii to seek him out. Some trained with him as little as a day, some 2 weeks. All of them later claimed to have been "trained by Prof. Chow", a few of them claimed to be teaching "true Kara-ho".
Everyone I have talked to who actually knew him agreed that he was a exceptional martial artist. People like Wally Jay and Sig Kufferath from the Okizaki Dojo told me that "he was the fastest karate man I ever saw", and "some of the Chinese kung fu instructors would challenge him for teaching non-Chinese, so he'd go to their schools and bust them up".
Adriano Emperado says that "he put the speed and the power in Kenpo".
His personal advisor and physican Dr. Ronald Perry first met him in the emergency room at a Honolulu hospital. Chow was waiting to talk to the police concerning a assualt where 3 men had attacked him. According to Dr. Perry, Chow was ruffed up a bit, but the other 3 were severly beaten, and one subsequently died.
In Hawaii, many of the senior Kenpo and Kajukenbo people have crossed trained with each other. I don't think there are any senior instructors that had "only" trained with Prof. Chow, including the late Bill Chun Sr.
So I think it would be very hard to find someone who actually knows all of the teachings of Prof. Chow, and teaches his system exclusively.
Even the name of the system has changed many times. Kenpo Jiu jutsu, Kenpo Karate, Chinese Kenpo, Goshin Jutsu Kai Kenpo, Shaolin Kenpo, Thunderbolt Karate, Dian Hsuhe Kara-ho Kenpo, Chinese Kempo of Kara-ho Karate.
His early students from the 40s like Adriano Emperado and Ed Parker learned a system very close to Mitose's Kenpo Jiu Jutsu, but with less emphasis on takedowns and more attention to rapid fire multiple hand strikes. During this time Chow did not teach the 1 kata Mitose had taught (Naihanchi Shodan).
His notable students from the 50s would be Ralph Castro and Bill Chun Sr. Ralph Castro trained to brown belt, and then got his black belt from Ed Parker when he moved to the mainland. When Chow stopped using the name "Shaolin Kenpo" he gave permission to Castro to continue using the name. Bill Chun kept the name "Goshin Jutsu Kai Kenpo" that Chow had used before Kara-ho.
The most drastic changes or additions to Karo-ho came as a result of Sam Alama Kuoha's association with Chow in the 80s. Kuoha had originally trained in the 60s with a student of Chow's, named Charles Kuihana. When Kuoha moved to the mainland in the late 60s he trained with several martial artists. He trained in a Kajukenbo offshoot receiving a black belt. He trained with Tigi Mataali, who claimed to be a student of Prof. Chow. He also trained in tae kwon do with Jun Chong, and aikido with John Damian.
Kuoha added aspects of all these arts into the Kara-ho that he teaches. He says that all these additions were approved by Professor Chow. I tend to believe this, since I have seen videos of Kuoha and some of his students training with Prof. Chow.
Now there are many faces of Kara-ho. When Prof. Chow was alive many, many, people went to Hawaii to seek him out. Some trained with him as little as a day, some 2 weeks. All of them later claimed to have been "trained by Prof. Chow", a few of them claimed to be teaching "true Kara-ho".
Everyone I have talked to who actually knew him agreed that he was a exceptional martial artist. People like Wally Jay and Sig Kufferath from the Okizaki Dojo told me that "he was the fastest karate man I ever saw", and "some of the Chinese kung fu instructors would challenge him for teaching non-Chinese, so he'd go to their schools and bust them up".
Adriano Emperado says that "he put the speed and the power in Kenpo".
His personal advisor and physican Dr. Ronald Perry first met him in the emergency room at a Honolulu hospital. Chow was waiting to talk to the police concerning a assualt where 3 men had attacked him. According to Dr. Perry, Chow was ruffed up a bit, but the other 3 were severly beaten, and one subsequently died.
In Hawaii, many of the senior Kenpo and Kajukenbo people have crossed trained with each other. I don't think there are any senior instructors that had "only" trained with Prof. Chow, including the late Bill Chun Sr.
So I think it would be very hard to find someone who actually knows all of the teachings of Prof. Chow, and teaches his system exclusively.
K
Kempo Guy
Guest
Mr. Bishop,
I am fully aware of the various teachers who were taught by Prof Chow and have done a lot of unpublished research in regards to Prof. Chow's teachings (with my instructor). As you mentioned, many trained VERY LITTLE with Professor and still claim lineage.
I have had the opportunity to meet Rev. Charles Kuihana as well as had dialogue and exchanges with Bill Chun's students. I have also been to Hawaii and trained with the late Prof. Tiwanak (one of Sijo Emperado's earlier students), Mr. Buell and a couple of students of Prof. Chow (one who trained with Prof. on a weekly basis since the 70's until Professor's death). Believe it or not, there are still guys over there that trained with Professor for a LONG time but has not come forward and DO NOT teach to the public.
As you mention, Kuoha has added A LOT to his version of Kara Ho. I've spent time at Sam Kuoha's home and also had the opportunity to meet and train with John Damian sensei, where most if not all of the "ki" material hails.
KG
I am fully aware of the various teachers who were taught by Prof Chow and have done a lot of unpublished research in regards to Prof. Chow's teachings (with my instructor). As you mentioned, many trained VERY LITTLE with Professor and still claim lineage.
I have had the opportunity to meet Rev. Charles Kuihana as well as had dialogue and exchanges with Bill Chun's students. I have also been to Hawaii and trained with the late Prof. Tiwanak (one of Sijo Emperado's earlier students), Mr. Buell and a couple of students of Prof. Chow (one who trained with Prof. on a weekly basis since the 70's until Professor's death). Believe it or not, there are still guys over there that trained with Professor for a LONG time but has not come forward and DO NOT teach to the public.
As you mention, Kuoha has added A LOT to his version of Kara Ho. I've spent time at Sam Kuoha's home and also had the opportunity to meet and train with John Damian sensei, where most if not all of the "ki" material hails.
KG
Kempo Guy:
Are you under the impression that I was questioning the accuracy of your posts? I know that the printed word can be misinterpeted in forums, but your response sounds kind of hostile. I was simply adding more information on the subject.
Are you under the impression that I was questioning the accuracy of your posts? I know that the printed word can be misinterpeted in forums, but your response sounds kind of hostile. I was simply adding more information on the subject.
K
Kempo Guy
Guest
No hostility... I was in a rush. After re-reading it I can see how it could be taken that way. I apologize.
BTW, these people I've mentioned have some very interesting things to say about the Kempo community and history...
There seems to be a lot of misinformation out there (and/or revisionist history) about Kempo and Prof. Chow in particular. I just wanted to let people know that I have had talks and trained with various individuals (I guess in order to lend myself some credibility as I am unknown on this board).
KG
BTW, these people I've mentioned have some very interesting things to say about the Kempo community and history...
There seems to be a lot of misinformation out there (and/or revisionist history) about Kempo and Prof. Chow in particular. I just wanted to let people know that I have had talks and trained with various individuals (I guess in order to lend myself some credibility as I am unknown on this board).
KG
Glad that's the case Kempo Guy. I look forward to more discussions on this topic. Sound's like we know a lot of the same people.
Prof. Chow's life is something that is very interesting, although somewhat sad at times. We probably both agree that he didn't get half the credit he deserved because of his isolation on the island, and the poverty he lived in.
It would probably be a much differant story now with the internet, videos, DVD's, and such.
Prof. Chow's life is something that is very interesting, although somewhat sad at times. We probably both agree that he didn't get half the credit he deserved because of his isolation on the island, and the poverty he lived in.
It would probably be a much differant story now with the internet, videos, DVD's, and such.
K
Kempo Guy
Guest
Mr. Bishop,
I agree with you. Although Prof. Chow is now famous it is too bad he didn't receive the recognition he deserved while he was alive.
Although I am not so sure the 'internet age' would have helped him altogether that much.
As you mention he lived in poverty and was not highly educated. Although some claim to have tried to help him, unfortunately I'm not so sure this was the case.
I can only hope that some carry on his legacy.
KG
I agree with you. Although Prof. Chow is now famous it is too bad he didn't receive the recognition he deserved while he was alive.
Although I am not so sure the 'internet age' would have helped him altogether that much.
As you mention he lived in poverty and was not highly educated. Although some claim to have tried to help him, unfortunately I'm not so sure this was the case.
I can only hope that some carry on his legacy.
KG
C
CoolKempoDude
Guest
Kempo guy and Bishop,
i certainly agree about Prof Chow.
I know little bit about Karaho. Learned from one of top Sam's students.
I guess Kempo guy and I are FORMER members of Karaho. I have a few questions for you guys.
1- How many Chow's students are currently alive and actually teachs chow's style ?
2- What do you know about Chow's techniques? How do you know if a person *teaches* or *practices* Chow's style??
i certainly agree about Prof Chow.
I know little bit about Karaho. Learned from one of top Sam's students.
I guess Kempo guy and I are FORMER members of Karaho. I have a few questions for you guys.
1- How many Chow's students are currently alive and actually teachs chow's style ?
2- What do you know about Chow's techniques? How do you know if a person *teaches* or *practices* Chow's style??
C
CoolKempoDude
Guest
can you name a few persons carry on his legacy ???
i want to know more about this kind of discussion. Please add more if you know more
thanks
L
lonekimono
Guest
For the guy who wants to know who does kara-ho kempo,
i know you can call sam, he's in cal. or you can call the LA police
he works there :asian:
i know you can call sam, he's in cal. or you can call the LA police
he works there
:asian:
Lonekimono:
Sam dosen't work for the LAPD. He medically retired from the San Diego Sheriff's Department in the early 80s. Prior to that he was with San Diego P.D. He lives in Blossom Valley (near El Cajon) in San Diego County.
Cool Kenpo Guy:
As to who is carrying on Prof. Chow's teachings, that's a matter of conjecture.
Ralph Castro says that his Shaolin Kenpo techniques are the techniques he learned from Prof. Chow.
Bill Chun Jr. says that the Goshin Jutsu Kai Kenpo techniques his father taught are the true techniques that Prof. Chow taught.
Sam Kuoha says that the Kara-ho techniques he teaches are true Kara-ho.
All three are probably right. Castro and Chun Sr. learned what Prof. Chow was teaching at the time.
And since Prof. Chow approved the additions that Sam Kuoha added in the 80s, then his teachings are also true Kara-ho.
A good comparison would be Ed Parker's kenpo. The students that he taught in the 50-60s didn't learn exactly the same techniques that the students of the 70s or 80s learned.
Sam dosen't work for the LAPD. He medically retired from the San Diego Sheriff's Department in the early 80s. Prior to that he was with San Diego P.D. He lives in Blossom Valley (near El Cajon) in San Diego County.
Cool Kenpo Guy:
As to who is carrying on Prof. Chow's teachings, that's a matter of conjecture.
Ralph Castro says that his Shaolin Kenpo techniques are the techniques he learned from Prof. Chow.
Bill Chun Jr. says that the Goshin Jutsu Kai Kenpo techniques his father taught are the true techniques that Prof. Chow taught.
Sam Kuoha says that the Kara-ho techniques he teaches are true Kara-ho.
All three are probably right. Castro and Chun Sr. learned what Prof. Chow was teaching at the time.
And since Prof. Chow approved the additions that Sam Kuoha added in the 80s, then his teachings are also true Kara-ho.
A good comparison would be Ed Parker's kenpo. The students that he taught in the 50-60s didn't learn exactly the same techniques that the students of the 70s or 80s learned.
L
lonekimono
Guest
Well now John i thank you very much for that, when i last talked with Sam he told me that is where he worked with his brother But that was in the late 80's
Oh by the way you are right about Parker Kenpo (that is my roots):asian:
Oh by the way you are right about Parker Kenpo (that is my roots):asian:
lonekimono:
I'm sure the LAPD thing was just some type of misunderstanding. I've known Sam for the last 18 years and being in California law enforcement for the last 32 years I've met several officers who worked with Sam at the San Diego Sheriff's office, including John Damian, who also retired from San Diego Sheriff's.
Seen the pictures of Sam standing next to his San Diego Sheriff's car when he was a canine officer. One of these pictures appeared on the cover of "Dog Fancy" magazine, and I think I still have a copy of it.
And, in the past I've written letters of recommendation for Sam outlining his law enforcement and martial arts experience. So, I'm sure about his law enforcement experience.
I'm sure the LAPD thing was just some type of misunderstanding. I've known Sam for the last 18 years and being in California law enforcement for the last 32 years I've met several officers who worked with Sam at the San Diego Sheriff's office, including John Damian, who also retired from San Diego Sheriff's.
Seen the pictures of Sam standing next to his San Diego Sheriff's car when he was a canine officer. One of these pictures appeared on the cover of "Dog Fancy" magazine, and I think I still have a copy of it.
And, in the past I've written letters of recommendation for Sam outlining his law enforcement and martial arts experience. So, I'm sure about his law enforcement experience.
K
Kempo Guy
Guest
CoolKempoDude,
Yes, I was a member of Sam's organization until about '94. My instructor resigned that year... I trained with my instructor off and on for a few years after that. We still get together from time to time and work on stuff.
First off, my intention is not to start a flamewar and try to discredit any individuals teaching Kempo. Also, I want to protect the people involved who have explicitly asked me never to mention them by name so I will do so out of respect for them. If you gentlemen would like to carry a conversation "off-line" I would be more than happy to. Please "pm" me, or write me at [email protected]
To answer your questions:
In Hawaii, I only know of two guys who studied with Prof. Chow until the end (that still are willing to show some of the material although very reluctantly). There's also Prof. Chow's son, Steven, however he doesn't teach either. According to Sam Kuoha he doens't know any Kempo but this is definitely not the case.
Please see my earlier post (especially the last half of the post). Some of the characterisitics are quick footwork (using angles), low stances (similar to a wide kneel stance in AKK), low line kicks, no blocks, and fast strikes (with a lot of clawing, knife edge, cross, hooks and uppercut type strikes). The training is quite severe.
FWIW, I don't think Parker's early Kenpo looks much like Professors Kempo. Although I guess Bill Chun's style is reminiscent of that.
To be honest, I don't think you'll have much 'luck' trying to find an instructor, unless you train with Sam Kuoha's Kara Ho organization. Otherwise, the instructors are pretty 'low profile' and do not advertise. One of the individuals in Hawaii has chosen not to teach anymore due to fear of lawsuits (due to the severity of training). I know this sounds overly dramatic but the training is harsh and most people will not stand for it and there's a great chance of injury.
And yes, Sam Kuoha worked for San Diego Sheriffs Dept. along with John Damien.
KG
Yes, I was a member of Sam's organization until about '94. My instructor resigned that year... I trained with my instructor off and on for a few years after that. We still get together from time to time and work on stuff.
First off, my intention is not to start a flamewar and try to discredit any individuals teaching Kempo. Also, I want to protect the people involved who have explicitly asked me never to mention them by name so I will do so out of respect for them. If you gentlemen would like to carry a conversation "off-line" I would be more than happy to. Please "pm" me, or write me at [email protected]
To answer your questions:
As Mr. Bishop has mentioned there are several of his students that are alive and teach. However, most have altered and carried on with a tradition that have become somewhat removed from Prof. Chow's style. Having said that, besides Bill Chun Jr. I only know of one other person on the mainland who is protecting (doesn't really teach anymore) what they have been taught by Prof. Chow.
In Hawaii, I only know of two guys who studied with Prof. Chow until the end (that still are willing to show some of the material although very reluctantly). There's also Prof. Chow's son, Steven, however he doesn't teach either. According to Sam Kuoha he doens't know any Kempo but this is definitely not the case.
Please see my earlier post (especially the last half of the post). Some of the characterisitics are quick footwork (using angles), low stances (similar to a wide kneel stance in AKK), low line kicks, no blocks, and fast strikes (with a lot of clawing, knife edge, cross, hooks and uppercut type strikes). The training is quite severe.
FWIW, I don't think Parker's early Kenpo looks much like Professors Kempo. Although I guess Bill Chun's style is reminiscent of that.
To be honest, I don't think you'll have much 'luck' trying to find an instructor, unless you train with Sam Kuoha's Kara Ho organization. Otherwise, the instructors are pretty 'low profile' and do not advertise. One of the individuals in Hawaii has chosen not to teach anymore due to fear of lawsuits (due to the severity of training). I know this sounds overly dramatic but the training is harsh and most people will not stand for it and there's a great chance of injury.
And yes, Sam Kuoha worked for San Diego Sheriffs Dept. along with John Damien.
KG
C
CoolKempoDude
Guest
Kempo Guy,
did you see Steven do chow's techniques in person or somebody told you that ( you don't have to tell name)???
thanks
i have to agree.
did you see Steven do chow's techniques in person or somebody told you that ( you don't have to tell name)???
thanks
i have to agree.
