Kali Empty Hand - Ever Seen it Used?

[Charlemagne]

Because of that what I do is just look and say "hey that looks like stuff from X" and knowing that Guro Dan is very familiar with Wing Chun and he specifically notes Kuntao it makes sense to apply it there. /Shrug.

Perhaps you are correct. There are obviously similarities of motion between a great many arts. I remember watching a Goju Ryu video a couple of years ago and then contacting friend of mine who is very advanced in Okinawan Karate and saying "I had no idea that Karate had trapping like that!".

 

[Juany118]

Perhaps you are correct. There are obviously similarities of motion between a great many arts. I remember watching a Goju Ryu video a couple of years ago and then contacting friend of mine who is very advanced in Okinawan Karate and saying "I had no idea that Karate had trapping like that!".

Oh I agree that you will find many similarities between arts and you may be right. More than once I said "biomechanics are biomechnaics" so when we watch someone fight we will see it through the lens of our personal experience. I may see Wing Chun where someone says "Goju Ryu."

At the same time Okinawan Karate, according to legend, has very firm roots in Chinese Martial Arts. Some say that the Chinese brought it to Okinawa where the Okinawans then combined it with their native arts. Others said an Okinawan learned at the Shaolin temple itself. Gotta love MA "legends" lol. It makes these conversations so damn fascinating.

I may simply be projecting from a little too much reading. A few years ago I became fascinated with the emigration of Chinese populations throughout South East Asia for some reason, especially the voyages of Admiral Zheng He, and this is where I started reading about Kuntao. It is primarily from the Southern Chinese arts, including Guangdong styles, which is where Wing Chun originated, Fujian etc. Some of these arts are basically unchanged, others became hybrids. Now of course this is all simply academic research though but when I saw the Wing Chun elements it led me to consider the following three thoughts.

1. these were brought from one of the hybrid arts, so not pure Wing Chun but a descendant there of.
2. it is from Wing Chun, from the South East Asian Community but if we were to see the whole form it wouldn't be the Wing Chun we know as Yip Man's Lineage. As I understand it, Yip Man simplified "his" Wing Chun overtime from an older Wing Chun he first learned in Foshan.
3. Guro Dan is personally well versed in Wing Chun and eventually added elements of the Wing Chun we know. However as he clearly has a concept of South East Asia in the Art he simply names Kuntao because there are elements of Wing Chun in Kuntao anywho.

As you can see I tend to think too much sometimes lol

 

[KangTsai]

When Anderson Silva was matrixing Michael Bisping's punches.

 

[Juany118]

When Anderson Silva was matrixing Michael Bisping's punches.

If you are talking the trapping, as much as the announcers called it FMA it was more likely Wing Chun/JKD trapping (the later takes it from WC) with his usual boxing like bob and weave...

Not saying he has never trained in FMA but we have some proof he has trained in WC and JKD concepts.

 

[KangTsai]

If you are talking the trapping, as much as the announcers called it FMA it was more likely Wing Chun/JKD trapping (the later takes it from WC) with his usual boxing like bob and weave...

Not saying he has never trained in FMA but we have some proof he has trained in WC and JKD concepts.

It was quoted during the match he took a "Filipino boxing" regiment. Also a youtuber and escrima practitioner (his name is wmpyr) I asked about this wrote that this was a great demonstration of heaven six, although he was frustrated slightly by the way it was used.

 

[Juany118]

It was quoted during the match he took a "Filipino boxing" regiment. Also a youtuber and escrima practitioner (his name is wmpyr) I asked about this wrote that this was a great demonstration of heaven six, although he was frustrated slightly by the way it was used.

Well now that I think about it the same techniques in that video are part of what I take in Inosanto Kali. Thing is the same defensive and trapping techniques are in Wing Chun. Inosanto Kali is a hybrid art that Guro Dan specifically says includes Kung Fu techniques (Kuntao on his site.). His Kali actually draws from 26 different original sources.

So the announcers could be right, but at the same time the techniques being from Wing Chun. Which would also explain your Traditional Eskrima friend being frustrated by how it was used because it is called Kali but many of the techniques are delivered in ways more similar to Kuntao and Silat. Gotta love hybrids

I just take both WC and Inosanto Kali so when I saw the title of the video I said "yeah the checks and trapping are WC and it's in JKD" but they are in Lacoste- Inosanto Kali as well. You can look above for the conversation we already had on elements in L-IK

 

[stonewall1350]

If you are talking the trapping, as much as the announcers called it FMA it was more likely Wing Chun/JKD trapping (the later takes it from WC) with his usual boxing like bob and weave...

Not saying he has never trained in FMA but we have some proof he has trained in WC and JKD concepts.

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[Juany118]

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That is what I speak of. Here is the issue...is Guro Dan teaching him Wing Chun/JKD or Inosanto Kali? All are tied together in Guro Dan's mind (to one degree or another)

 

[stonewall1350]

That is what I speak of. Here is the issue...is Guro Dan teaching him Wing Chun/JKD or Inosanto Kali? All are tied together in Guro Dan's mind (to one degree or another)

Idk. I'm memorized by it for sure. The head movement reminds me of someone, and not to water down the discussion on similarity

The speed is just amazing. I've googled both and it seems most people think it is Kali. My theory is that they WOULD think that with Jeff Imada (spelling?) out there in the film industry with Book of Eli and of course the Bourne films. And so they have Kali on the brain.

But I wouldn't be surprised if more "cultured" (or rather more learned in the history of martial arts) would see the similarities from Wing Chun. Recognizing the moves and seeing the history.

Speaking of film references I researched the matrix video and some of the slow downs show how similar they are in terms of the moves (with the matrix exaggerating obviously), and we all know Neo did WC.

But as others have pointed out to me...they are very similar. And basically? To me? It would be like debating if someone pulled a Jiujitsu, judo, Brazilian jiu-jitsu, or sumo throw. They all would look about the same.



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[Juany118]

Idk. I'm memorized by it for sure. The head movement reminds me of someone, and not to water down the discussion on similarity

The speed is just amazing. I've googled both and it seems most people think it is Kali. My theory is that they WOULD think that with Jeff Imada (spelling?) out there in the film industry with Book of Eli and of course the Bourne films. And so they have Kali on the brain.

But I wouldn't be surprised if more "cultured" (or rather more learned in the history of martial arts) would see the similarities from Wing Chun. Recognizing the moves and seeing the history.

Speaking of film references I researched the matrix video and some of the slow downs show how similar they are in terms of the moves (with the matrix exaggerating obviously), and we all know Neo did WC.

But as others have pointed out to me...they are very similar. And basically? To me? It would be like debating if someone pulled a Jiujitsu, judo, Brazilian jiu-jitsu, or sumo throw. They all would look about the same.



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The last is something I say all the time. Human bodies can only move in so many ways, biomechanics is biomechanics. We see through our personal lens. So one person may say Kali, another Wing Chun, yet another Kick Boxing... Whatever. There is no special sauce. Find what feels right, what makes you passionate. Study that and you will lord over those who study something because the masses say "this is the newest and best."

 

[stonewall1350]

The last is something I say all the time. Human bodies can only move in so many ways, biomechanics is biomechanics. We see through our personal lens. So one person may say Kali, another Wing Chun, yet another Kick Boxing... Whatever. There is no special sauce. Find what feels right, what makes you passionate. Study that and you will lord over those who study something because the masses say "this is the newest and best."

So very very true. I still cannot believe how flawless Silva's movements are. It makes me want to dance lol.


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[Juany118]

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Watching that video in slow motion though (first time I did it) it actually looks like a few times, while Anderson is bobbing and weaving, it's actually an issue of the other guy getting the range wrong as well (the 1:50 mark). He really needed to be getting in closer. He seemed to be staying at Anderson's range and Anderson clearly has more reach. That what is making a lot of that "matrixing" work.

 

[realg7]

If you are talking the trapping, as much as the announcers called it FMA it was more likely Wing Chun/JKD trapping (the later takes it from WC) with his usual boxing like bob and weave...

Not saying he has never trained in FMA but we have some proof he has trained in WC and JKD concepts.

Good video bro

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[realg7]

Watching that video in slow motion though (first time I did it) it actually looks like a few times, while Anderson is bobbing and weaving, it's actually an issue of the other guy getting the range wrong as well (the 1:50 mark). He really needed to be getting in closer. He seemed to be staying at Anderson's range and Anderson clearly has more reach. That what is making a lot of that "matrixing" work.

I'm now following u. I knew we'd be brothers of the blade.

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