General FMA questions

[free2flow]

Balintawak- I don’t know what this is. Seems to be a “regional” type of Eskrima/Kali/Arnis. The videos I have seen of stick work from Balintawak used the butt of the stick more, and seemed to favor a closer range of combat than that of other FMA vids I have seen. Does this style have much by way of empty hand work? Do they utilize kicks at all?

Balintawak like most FMA styles also has a lot of empty-hand applications due to it's closer range where your tools (like hands, elbow, head, knee) can be utilized. It has punching, locking, breaking, outbalancing, low kicking, foot sweeps and more. It's really a good style when it comes to empty-hand applications. For me Balintawak (based on my experience) is like a combination of Boxing and Wing Chun.
Btw one of my training partners is a Tracy Kenpo Blackbelt and he really see a lot in Balintawak that he could combine with his kenpo as well as his small circle jujitsu.
Hope this helps .

 

[thekuntawman]

hello

i have a couple of things i want to answer, that i saw in the posts

1. kenpo and FMA have similiarities because they have similar history, that is connected. in the history of kenpo and hawaiian karate, the older masters had arnis/eskrima in thier arts. the people who learned besides ed parker when he was young some of them were filipino, did arnis, and added arnis to their styles. these are the styles of hawaiian kenpo/karate/kempo and kajukenbo. the arnis stick and disarmings have been in kenpo all the way back in the 60s. i remember arnis being called "kenpo stick and kenpo knife" in the 70s.
for the FMA side, GM dan inosanto, who influenced most of the FMA in this country and probably all around the world now, started out as a black belter. so when you look at his empty hand, although he is calling it panantukan, etc. he is still doing kenpo, or kenpo-style techniques. so, his art and his skill is very good, and what we ended up with is that other FMA people doing their arts the same way he does now, because of his influence. i dont think theres any FMA here in the US except some of the new comers (recent doce pares and balintawak and tapado) that does not have some influence from jkd/kali. except for the people who deny they watch his tapes or went to his seminars.
2. good fighting skill will help you no matter where it comes from. so filipino arts will help your skill is a kenpo fighter, as a kung fu, as a tae kwon do... but so will boxing and aikido and other arts. good skill does not have to look like the art you do now for it to be helpful.
3. panantukan... yes, this is an art, but its american FMA. unless some filipinos back home start teaching it too, but 50 years ago, there was no panantukan. here in the us, in the philippines, in indonesia or anywhere else. is it effective? that is up to people to test and find out and its a different question. but lets not confuse respect for dan inosanto and his arts with history. i know a Tae (lol) - Co - Ju - Ka. its a philippine art, it might be effective, and its new. some people will say, its not an art (because its new and somebody made it up) or has no history. but others will say, if the art is put together in a good way, then its an art. if somebody wanted to move back home and start teaching tae bo as an art, it will be a "phillipino" art.
4. i have my opinion about sikaran as an older art, but meliton geronimo is not THE founder of sikaran. there are a couple arts called sikaran, and there is also some schools who have the fighting techniques of sikaran inside there styles. i fought against some of them in the philippines and they are very good fighters, even though they dont use their hands very much. one guy, who i forgot the name of, kicks so good, he doesnt need hands. he is the first person to prove to me, than you dont need "well rounded" or skill in all ranges to be an effective fighter.

if there is no eskrima or arnis in your area, i recommend that you save some money and travel to train with a teacher. its going to be worth the struggle. you could do video and youtube, but almost everybody is teaching the same, hair and skin arts. travel to learn in person (even if its one state away) your going to get good training and deep understanding. your going to be glad you did.

 

[ap Oweyn]

4. i have my opinion about sikaran as an older art, but meliton geronimo is not THE founder of sikaran.

This highlights the issues with terminology in FMA as well as anything else. Okay then. Geronimo Meliton is the founder of a style he calls Sikaran.

there are a couple arts called sikaran, and there is also some schools who have the fighting techniques of sikaran inside there styles.

I mentioned that. We called kicking "sikaran" in our school as well. I've also heard the terms "pananjakman" (from the Inosanto camp) and "sipa" (from my Modern Arnis teacher) applied to kicking within their respective styles. Though in my Doce Pares school, "sipa" referred to one specific kick.


Stuart

 

[thekuntawman]

sorry i meant to say that meliton geronimo is not the ONLY founder of sikaran. i dont know that there was ever only one style of sikaran. but i remember that the sikaran schools i saw in the philippines did what they call "KATA".

that tells you everytrhing.

 

[ap Oweyn]

sorry i meant to say that meliton geronimo is not the ONLY founder of sikaran. i dont know that there was ever only one style of sikaran. but i remember that the sikaran schools i saw in the philippines did what they call "KATA".

that tells you everytrhing.

I do remember reading that Meliton had a considerable background in karate and, I believe, taekwondo before developing sikaran, yeah.

I seem to remember he presented it like an indigenous kicking art that had always been there. But it seemed pretty clear to me that a lot of his previous experience was informing sikaran. Not that I have any inherent problems with that. But it did seem like a bit of a misdirection to me.

 

[geezer]

hello

i have a couple of things i want to answer, that i saw in the posts

1. kenpo and FMA have similiarities because they have similar history, that is connected... i dont think theres any FMA here in the US except some of the new comers (recent doce pares and balintawak and tapado) that does not have some influence from jkd/kali... panantukan... yes, this is an art, but its american FMA...

From what I've seen, even what's being done in the Philippines has a rich mix of modern karate, boxing, and kung-fu influences. The ancient stuff was a mix too, as ap Oweyn posted: Spanish, Indonesian, Chinese, and whatever else, in addition to the many indigenous filipino tribal arts.

So when you bring that eclectic mix to America (or anywhere else outside of the Philippines) what do you end up with??? Do we really practice FMA (Filipino Martial Arts) or AFMA/FAMA (American-Filipino/Filipino-American MA), MFMA (Mixed FMA), MMFMA (Modern Mixed FMA) or WTF!

 

[ap Oweyn]

I interviewed GM Cacoy Canete of Doce Pares years ago. He cited his background in boxing, karate, Kodokan judo, jiujutsu, wrestling, and aikido, in addition to the classical eskrima he was learning from Teodoro "Doring" Saavedra. So there are several non-Pinoy arts informing his practice. But, the way I think of it, they've each been filtered through the FMA lense, getting changed along the way. So the end result is still something pretty uniquely Filipino. Because, when you look at a particular technique from boxing (for instance), a lot of FMA folks are going to look at that and think, "right, but how would it change the equation if I were to assume that the rear cross was a knife instead?" I don't feel like the technique has to be indigenous. But outside technique does get filtered through an indigenous set of priorities and concerns.

If that makes any sense.

...

Huh. So this is what "off topic" looks like. Sorry.



Stuart

 

[thekuntawman]

But, the way I think of it, they've each been filtered through the FMA lense, getting changed along the way. So the end result is still something pretty uniquely Filipino. Because, when you look at a particular technique from boxing (for instance), a lot of FMA folks are going to look at that and think, "right, but how would it change the equation if I were to assume that the rear cross was a knife instead?" I don't feel like the technique has to be indigenous. But outside technique does get filtered through an indigenous set of priorities and concerns.

If that makes any sense.



Stuart

geezer, this is what i would say, but ap says it first. not all FMA styles use outside arts, except the ones that comes from establishe schools. these are the ones with a full curriculum, belts/rank, titles, stuff like that. most of the styles, though, are not that developed, they just have techniques, a style name and many ways to use those techniques. in those smaller styles, you find more basic, "filipino" or "pure" arts. there is really no such thing is "pure" filipino, except for what is behind what you're doing. even the language and the food, comes from someplace else. but there is something underneath all of that, the philosophy, the application, that makes it "filipino". i have an article about this on my blog (filipino fighting secrets) if your interested to read about it.

but even if you add to an art, which like i said not a lot did, it becomes absorbed into your style and becomes more of a part of your style, than the art it started from. so the point i was making was that the arts that came to the US after the 90s (or became popular after the 90s) did not have their influence from jkd/kali and groups like them. they do not share the same history or philosophy, techniques, but worse than that, many of them do share the same business practice.