Kajukenbo - Black Belt Home Study Course

[Todd Reiner]

Anyone seen this:

http://renzokujiujitsu.tripod.com/blackbelt/id104.html

The owner of this website was asked to stop distribution of Tim Rockford's distance learning program by Tim a long time ago and obviously this did not happen.

That is the update on this issue and we have dodged the distance learning bullet once again....for now. I thank all who got as mad as I. I believe as long as the Ohana is strong we can continue to dodge this crap and keep our integrity.

 

[John Bishop]

The owner of this website was asked to stop distribution of Tim Rockford's distance learning program by Tim a long time ago and obviously this did not happen.

That is the update on this issue and we have dodged the distance learning bullet once again....for now. I thank all who got as mad as I. I believe as long as the Ohana is strong we can continue to dodge this crap and keep our integrity.

If you'll note from the above website, the video training program is for "Kajuken po", not "Kajuken bo".
Kajukenpo is the system created by Eugene Caraulia that combined his Kajukenbo, Okinawan karate, and other training together. All Caraulia's black belt ranks were issued by Robert Trias and the USKA, which recoginzed his system, "Kajukenpo".
This group (Andrew Torok and Tim Rochford) originally trained under Caraulia before later training in Kajukenbo under GM Emil Bautista.
The video series covers "Kajuken po" techniques, and grants rank in that system.

 

[Todd Reiner]

If you'll note from the above website, the video training program is for "Kajuken po", not "Kajuken bo".
Kajukenpo is the system created by Eugene Caraulia that combined his Kajukenbo, Okinawan karate, and other training together. All Caraulia's black belt ranks were issued by Robert Trias and the USKA, which recoginzed his system, "Kajukenpo".
This group (Andrew Torok and Tim Rochford) originally trained under Caraulia before later training in Kajukenbo under GM Emil Bautista.
The video series covers "Kajuken po" techniques, and grants rank in that system.

They changed the (b) to a (p) recently. Took some language out of the advertisement as well.

 

[Carol]

As recently as yesterday...when they were spelling Kajukenbo with a b, and made note that this was not Sijo Emperado's line of Kajukenbo (with a b).

They have changed the lettering in the graphics of the ad itself and removed the reference to Sijo, but the lettering on the browser title bar and on the title of my Firefox tab still says Kajukenbo with a b...

 

[Danjo]

They changed the (b) to a (p) recently. Took some language out of the advertisement as well.

Yep. Glad they did. I don't care if they sell rank in Kajukenpo.

 

[Sandstorm]

As recently as yesterday...when they were spelling Kajukenbo with a b, and made note that this was not Sijo Emperado's line of Kajukenbo (with a b).

They have changed the lettering in the graphics of the ad itself and removed the reference to Sijo, but the lettering on the browser title bar and on the title of my Firefox tab still says Kajukenbo with a b...

Pretty safe to say that these guys are a complete waste of space then. This is pretty much them openly confessing to flaudulent claims.

 

[Danjo]

As recently as yesterday...when they were spelling Kajukenbo with a b, and made note that this was not Sijo Emperado's line of Kajukenbo (with a b).

They have changed the lettering in the graphics of the ad itself and removed the reference to Sijo, but the lettering on the browser title bar and on the title of my Firefox tab still says Kajukenbo with a b...

Here was the wording from yesterday:

"Note: Mr. Rochford's training in Kajukenbo was under Professor
Andrew Torok. The lineage is not directly from Emperado. The forms/katas included in this course are not from the original Kajukenbo system ( the Palama Sets ). This is also not known as the Ramos method of Kajukenbo.
Additional questions before ordering, drop us an email at srmaa@atlanticbb.net "

 

[John Bishop]

They changed the (b) to a (p) recently. Took some language out of the advertisement as well.

The techniques he was selling on video were always "Kajukenpo", but because of his instructors later change to Kajukenbo, he was using the name.
He agreed last year to drop the name "Kajukenbo" and "Emperado". And either use "Karate" or Kajukenpo", since the techniques he was teaching were in fact "Kajuken po".
Because of geographical separation, he had not kept up with his instructor's transition to Kajukenbo techniques, so he still teaches "Kajukenpo" techniques.
Nothing like a little peer pressure to keep people honest. Good job guys.

 

[Twin Fist]

never under estimate the power of a bunch of annoyed Kaju guys............

 

[KenpoDave]

Here was the wording from yesterday:

"Note: Mr. Rochford's training in Kajukenbo was under Professor
Andrew Torok. The lineage is not directly from Emperado. The forms/katas included in this course are not from the original Kajukenbo system ( the Palama Sets ). This is also not known as the Ramos method of Kajukenbo.
Additional questions before ordering, drop us an email at srmaa@atlanticbb.net "

Interesting. An ad that basically talks about all the things that they are NOT.

Reverse psychology, maybe?

Perhaps if they said something like: "If you can't earn your blackbelt in KajukenBo, then this is the place for you..."

 

[Carol]

...or maybe he was feeling the wrath of a bunch of annoyed Kaju guys

 

[just2kicku]

If you'll note from the above website, the video training program is for "Kajuken po", not "Kajuken bo".
Kajukenpo is the system created by Eugene Caraulia that combined his Kajukenbo, Okinawan karate, and other training together. All Caraulia's black belt ranks were issued by Robert Trias and the USKA, which recoginzed his system, "Kajukenpo".
This group (Andrew Torok and Tim Rochford) originally trained under Caraulia before later training in Kajukenbo under GM Emil Bautista.
The video series covers "Kajuken po" techniques, and grants rank in that system.

How can this guy Torok be an 8th degree? Prof John, you're an 8th and been doing this for a damn long time. He says he trained with Al Gene from 69-73 and he doesn't say how long he trained with GM Bautista, but is my math off here? GM Dougs been doing Kaju 40+ years and just made GM, so how can this guy claim 8th? I guess that's my question.

 

[Hand Sword]

the same way that countless others do, just say so, and have someone say "Yeah they are" along with a fancy piece of paper.

 

[kenpo101]

just to kick u

are you saying you can't learn from long distance? what are you crazy???
have you seen the ikca dvd's. they do make corrections for you. i don't thinnk u know much about anything the way u flip at the mouth.
have u called tim rockford personally and told him what u think or have u just sit behind your screen and talk this stuff?
i now mr torok personal and he is not a fraud.

bernie gorak

 

[Todd Reiner]

just to kick u

are you saying you can't learn from long distance? what are you crazy???
have you seen the ikca dvd's. they do make corrections for you. i don't thinnk u know much about anything the way u flip at the mouth.
have u called tim rockford personally and told him what u think or have u just sit behind your screen and talk this stuff?
i now mr torok personal and he is not a fraud.

bernie gorak

I had a long response but Bernie see PM.

 

[kenpo101]

mr torok is not my intructor. i just happen to know him.

we will agree that we disagree and yes some day lets get some cold ones and sit and laugh.

have a great day.

 

[Danjo]

just to kick u

are you saying you can't learn from long distance? what are you crazy???
have you seen the ikca dvd's. they do make corrections for you. i don't thinnk u know much about anything the way u flip at the mouth.
have u called tim rockford personally and told him what u think or have u just sit behind your screen and talk this stuff?
i now mr torok personal and he is not a fraud.

bernie gorak

Can you learn anything long distance? Yes.

Can you learn enough to earn a black belt? Not in any martial art worth studying.

DVDs do NOT make corrections for you. They do not look at what you are doing, nor do they feel what you are doing wrong and tell you how to correct it.

As to how much just2kicku does or does not know, I know him personally. He's a black belt under a very good teacher and is personally very tough. He was on my testing board when I got my black belt and we have fought each other at tournaments (he won). If you look at John Bishop's album on here, and go to the photo titled "Danjo's Black Belt testing board - 2007" just2kicku is the man standing on the far right of the picture.

Calling someone a "fraud" and questioning how they got such high rank with so little time training are two different things. I'm not going to get into that one since rank questioning never seems to go anywhere good. Torok is under GM Bautista, and it's his business whom he promotes as far as I'm concerned. I'm sure there's things that I don't know about it, and I'm not curious enough to ask.

But regardless of someone's rank, or whether they deserve it or not, no one should be selling Kajukenbo black belts through the mail.

 

[Sandstorm]

But regardless of someone's rank, or whether they deserve it or not, no one should be selling Kajukenbo black belts through the mail.

And that really is the bottom line in this whole debate.

 

[searcher]

I have tried to read the entire thread, but please forgive me if I missed any valid points. From what I have read I have drawn some conclusions and Iwill add myown opinion of some things.


Can a person learn a system form a video or book?
I have to give this one a huge yes.
It depends on a number of things:
the layout of the material,
There are people that can learn things from videos and books faster then an instructor can teach them and they look pretty darn good doing it. Ex, it seems that the IKCA guys are pretty good when I see them in competition and I think most of them had little if any face-to-face contact with an instructor.

the depth of coverage of the material,
Some video series are better than others. My I-ryu instructor's instructor has a very good series out by Panther videos and it helped me tremendously with learning the I-ryu system.

the person learning from the video,
Some people have a knack for learning from videos, they just happen to have a high visual accuity for video and book training. The students I have like this are great at visualization.

do the have a person to make corrections,
I think we all agree that this helps with anything. Having someone that can look at their technique and fix the little things is always nice, but not always practical. Ex., I don't have a Kajukenbo school anywhere near me. So how can I learn a system when their is not one near? Its videos or nothing. As has been stated, it is easy to bash when you have 100 schools within a 1 hour drive. Here in KS, you are stuck with what you have(and most of the students I have drive further than 1 hour for instruction).


Now, do I believe in the selling of rank? No Way, No How. But here are many schools that are belt factories. Ex., I had one "flex-trained" Kajukenbo BB come into one of my instructor's school and take classes for a while. Was he good, not really. But how can this be? He was "flex-trained." It happened for the same reason some of the video students make it to BB and are not very good. They sold him the rank. But that does not happen in schools, does it?



My point I am trying to make is this, don't go crazy on somebody for trying to learn from a video or those trying to teach through a video series. They are doing the best they can with what they have. Feel free to kick the crap out of the people selling rank, including the ones selling through schools.


Let the flaming begin.

 

[LawDog]

There is no interaction between you and a work out / sparring partner and there is no one there to correct this interaction.
After all a belt of any level indicates your ability to defend yourself or to fight.
Someone of knowledge and ability has to be there to verify this "quality control" ranking.
After all white belt up to a Master level belt indicates your ability to fight, nothing more, nothing less.