Just what is the USAT supposed to do about grassroots?
- Thread starter MSUTKD
- Start date
AAu has to pay for venues and referees and seminars as well. they have a membership fee, that is $14.00 for under 18 and $22.00 for adults for the year. They have so many tournaments that they can make moneies to cover everything. They provide continous training for there referees and coaches.
Everything you mention is paid for by the athletes or referees the USAT does not really pay for much, the National Poomsae Team needed to raise funds ask Master Southwick.
I do not want ths to be AAU vs. USAT but what each one can do to help each other but if USAT could just look at what the AAU is doing and take away some of and add it to it innner circle it could help the USAT become a better org.
I will just end this with if you believe the USAT is not making money hand over fist than you are sadly mistaken and if I believe the AAU was not making money I would be a fool/
Miles
Senior Master
Answer to #1-my NGB is not hurting me at all.
Answer to #2-I want the USAT to be open about its policies and procedures for prospective athletes/coaches/and referees. I want it to be clear about it's requirements for sanctioned events and what it expects of any grassroots organization.
I respectfully disagree that the grassroots has "nothing to do with the USAT at all." I do believe USAT should have a limited role in publicizing the sport in a positive manner so that folks will want to be involved. I think it should provide avenues of competition and training for elite athletes and prospective elite athletes. But that is about it. I don't think the USAT needs to be concerned about the some-time competitor-that's not it's responsibility.
However, I wholeheartedly agree that before anyone can complain about anything, they should get involved. I will never be an elite athlete, but that doesn't mean I can't assist those students (who may not even be my own) with their dream to represent the USA. That starts in the dojang and as you mention, may involve networking with others who have the ability to take the athletes to the next level.
Yes, we sweat a lot and have fun!
It starts with me. I am responsible for myself and my students. If I can't personally train them to be on the National Team, I better be searching out avenues for that student or I am not a good instructor.
You ask what can I do , well not really me in particular but here is my answer after thinking about it.
I find the best possible avenue for my athletes to compete and get the expeience they need to get to the next level. Me and four of my student travel all over America to attend so many tournaments with a great repoutation for fair play. I send them to training camps including AAU USAT and at the state level.I find it hard at USAT for one reason they are not open about everything until the last minute. I have had my own son train with alot of people including those in tight with USAT, not going to mention any names. I beleive to be the best we must all be a part of doing what is right and yes I know the USAT does not need my approval but it would be nice to be treated with respect like I can get from other orgs.. USAT does not need to cater to me but thay do need to keep me informed of what is truely going on with the orgs as soon as possible. My club is still with USAT and AAU and we tend to believe that both need to work together with all clubs to field the very best and to develope the very best.
I find the best possible avenue for my athletes to compete and get the expeience they need to get to the next level. Me and four of my student travel all over America to attend so many tournaments with a great repoutation for fair play. I send them to training camps including AAU USAT and at the state level.I find it hard at USAT for one reason they are not open about everything until the last minute. I have had my own son train with alot of people including those in tight with USAT, not going to mention any names. I beleive to be the best we must all be a part of doing what is right and yes I know the USAT does not need my approval but it would be nice to be treated with respect like I can get from other orgs.. USAT does not need to cater to me but thay do need to keep me informed of what is truely going on with the orgs as soon as possible. My club is still with USAT and AAU and we tend to believe that both need to work together with all clubs to field the very best and to develope the very best.
“What do want from the USAT, SPECIFICALLY, to help grassroots”? MSUTKD
Approachability
Transparency
Responsiveness
In the last week I have spoken with Master Dewart Pacific Regional Director of AAU and Master Bolan Board of Directors AAU. They both took the time to discuss issues with me they are very approachable at events and are welling to discuss areas of concern.
I have attempted to contact USAT on 3 occasions this week and have been unsuccessful. I will continue to follow up with Email. I always have a very difficult time getting a hold of the USAT.
Again I am a USAT (Non-Engaged) member because I have not found them to be any of these things. I would like to be engaged member of the USAT but they make it very difficult. I would rather not discuss everything on this forum that is why I sent you a PM. Approachability and Responsiveness is very important in any customer relationship and the USAT is lacking in this area.
I am a (Engaged) AAU member/fan because they have been all of these things.
Approachability
Transparency
Responsiveness
In the last week I have spoken with Master Dewart Pacific Regional Director of AAU and Master Bolan Board of Directors AAU. They both took the time to discuss issues with me they are very approachable at events and are welling to discuss areas of concern.
I have attempted to contact USAT on 3 occasions this week and have been unsuccessful. I will continue to follow up with Email. I always have a very difficult time getting a hold of the USAT.
Again I am a USAT (Non-Engaged) member because I have not found them to be any of these things. I would like to be engaged member of the USAT but they make it very difficult. I would rather not discuss everything on this forum that is why I sent you a PM. Approachability and Responsiveness is very important in any customer relationship and the USAT is lacking in this area.
I am a (Engaged) AAU member/fan because they have been all of these things.
Not that I am some ibg defender of USA Taekwondo, but after reading a few people's problems with contacting USAT I feel it is only fair to report that I have never had any problems contacting USAT either by phone or e-mail.
I have called David Askinas 1 time and Mark Kaufmann 2 times and got through to them both the first time. They listened to me and responded to my questions and concerns.
When it comes to e-mail, I have e-mailed both of the above mentioned and 1 or 2 others. I have always gotten a response from Mark Kaufmann within minutes and that is regardless of the time of day. I have often thought that he perhaps does not sleep. David Askinas can take a day or 2 to respond, but he always has responded.
The only person involved with USAT that I have ever had any issues with contacting and getting appropriate replies from was Herbert Perez who did nothing but give me the run around and repeated out-right lies, both in e-mail and on the phone, for several months over what really was a very simple matter that ultimately I turned to David Askinas for assistance with and got immediate results.
Maybe that would not be the case today, since it has probably been close to 2 years since I have had to pick up the phone and call USAT offices, but that at least has been my experience.
I have called David Askinas 1 time and Mark Kaufmann 2 times and got through to them both the first time. They listened to me and responded to my questions and concerns.
When it comes to e-mail, I have e-mailed both of the above mentioned and 1 or 2 others. I have always gotten a response from Mark Kaufmann within minutes and that is regardless of the time of day. I have often thought that he perhaps does not sleep. David Askinas can take a day or 2 to respond, but he always has responded.
The only person involved with USAT that I have ever had any issues with contacting and getting appropriate replies from was Herbert Perez who did nothing but give me the run around and repeated out-right lies, both in e-mail and on the phone, for several months over what really was a very simple matter that ultimately I turned to David Askinas for assistance with and got immediate results.
Maybe that would not be the case today, since it has probably been close to 2 years since I have had to pick up the phone and call USAT offices, but that at least has been my experience.
Boy I can Relate to this!!!!!!!!!! This is SOOO familiar.
HEY HERB..... WHERES MY SHIRT!
herb perez said:
TKD_Stops_Tilt
Yellow Belt
Actually, you aren't directly addressing the problems that have been pointed out by those who are "disenchanted" with the USAT. Honestly, I find your attitude and sarcastic remarks to be particularly condescending and really are part of the problem with the USAT and their active supporters. I don't particularly care if you are Master Southwick and a member of the U.S. National Poomsae Team. Actually, I think someone like you should step forward and address issues raised from the Taekwondo community, rather than sweep them under the rug with your sarcasm. That doesn't help the situation either.
Folks that are disenchanted with the USAT are so because there are numerous examples of poor management practcices and potential ethics violations that should be investigated. These examples range from the CEO not doing his job and ensuring timely financial reporting to obvious conflicts of interest on the part of the national team coaches and their influence on the national team selection process while still actively training their own athletes.
Did you ever happen to think that maybe members are leaving the USAT because their want their membership dues used by an organziation that does it's job fairly and efficiently AND can be held accountable when it doesn't? Or is that too much to ask?
TKD_Stops_Tilt
Yellow Belt
You should have thought about that before you made your sarcastic remarks. If you don't like the tone of the responses, try looking at your original post.
- Thread Starter
- #33
Thank you Tilt for your comments. My sarcasm was meant to elicit a response in the reader. I was actually just repeating many arguments that I read on this forum. Comments that we all make based on an emotional response to our frustration. If you feel I was being condescending then please accept my apology. I did try to preface my attempt in the post; i.e.
Even the multiple posts in this thread from Gorilla, thanks by the way, show that both organizations offer things (training, international competitions, etc.) to the elite few that reach the top. My point was that neither are really doing grassroots; WE are the grassroots.
Even the multiple posts in this thread from Gorilla, thanks by the way, show that both organizations offer things (training, international competitions, etc.) to the elite few that reach the top. My point was that neither are really doing grassroots; WE are the grassroots.
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Miles
Senior Master
Warning! This post is totally off-topic!
FWIW, M Southwick is one of the nicest guys you'd ever meet. I always enjoy training with him. He "walks the walk" daily and is not only an elite athlete but an incredible teacher. I don't read anything condescending in his words. In this thread, he asks questions which have been bandied about for quite some time without resolution. Rather than jump on him for any percieved slight, why not give your perspective...that's all he is seeking.
FWIW, M Southwick is one of the nicest guys you'd ever meet. I always enjoy training with him. He "walks the walk" daily and is not only an elite athlete but an incredible teacher. I don't read anything condescending in his words. In this thread, he asks questions which have been bandied about for quite some time without resolution. Rather than jump on him for any percieved slight, why not give your perspective...that's all he is seeking.
dortiz
Black Belt
Yup, I have to jump on the same bandwagon.
Even if most never have a shot at the Olympics there is no good argument for not trying to be the one. Always aim higher and fall less short. Lower the bar and enjoy your new lows.
Dave O.
Even if most never have a shot at the Olympics there is no good argument for not trying to be the one. Always aim higher and fall less short. Lower the bar and enjoy your new lows.
Dave O.
Maste Southwick amd some others, I will comtinue to say you are right we are the grassroot for alot of athletes but we can only take them so far, withen certain orgs, not trying to say USAT but yes with them. The USAT has made it clear go to Jean or Jaun for additional training for any chance of being picked, well I am one that would like to see what they are doing so I can start teaching what thay are. If this does not make sense than sorry but I am trying to put down what it is I am saying. I would love to have seminars with both people but they are not doing that, I would love to learn new ways of approaching competittion but once again they do not provide this either. The AAU will take the time with there coaches to help a school owner and give littele seminars about new ways of training and competing.
Like I said I am not saying anything bad about USAT but I am confused why they would not want there schools and competitors tp learn those other area's, it seems they try and keep everything in house and not devulge much until the very last minute.
Like I said I am not saying anything bad about USAT but I am confused why they would not want there schools and competitors tp learn those other area's, it seems they try and keep everything in house and not devulge much until the very last minute.
If I may ask, and this is not ment as an attack, so please dont take it that way.....
Master Southwick, do you think that your status within USAT, and your recognition as a team member etc, prevents you from recieving the same treatment (positive or negative) that others here have stated in this thread, so this prevents you from seeing the same side that the average instructor/coach deals with at these events or within this organization? Kind of like asking a born rich kid what its like to be poor?
Please forgive me if i sounded disrepectful, I am only trying to get a point across. I agree that it begins with all of us at the "battlefront". But there are many (not me.... ) who feel they want a better shot....errr chance to compete on the same level as everyone else and get shunned due to them being a no name.... or not having an elite status within the org.
It may be hard to relate to others frustration, I'm just wishing to bring that to light. nothing more. nothing less.
ok..... let the arrows fly.....
Master Southwick, do you think that your status within USAT, and your recognition as a team member etc, prevents you from recieving the same treatment (positive or negative) that others here have stated in this thread, so this prevents you from seeing the same side that the average instructor/coach deals with at these events or within this organization? Kind of like asking a born rich kid what its like to be poor?
Please forgive me if i sounded disrepectful, I am only trying to get a point across. I agree that it begins with all of us at the "battlefront". But there are many (not me.... ) who feel they want a better shot....errr chance to compete on the same level as everyone else and get shunned due to them being a no name.... or not having an elite status within the org.
It may be hard to relate to others frustration, I'm just wishing to bring that to light. nothing more. nothing less.
ok..... let the arrows fly.....
TKD_Stops_Tilt
Yellow Belt
I also apologize for my response. My point may have been lost because I took the tone of your post personally. I don't think my post was a vicious attack, but it was unnecessarily emotional.
The point I was trying to make is that I think part of the position you are taking is moot. I don't think you can approach the community of folks that disenchanted with USAT from the grassroots angle. It's not really a "lack of grassroots programs" kind of problem.
The main issues with the USAT revolve around the competency and efficiency of the current CEO, the ability/desire of the BOD to hold the current CEO accountable, and the apparent conflict of interest on the part of the national team coaches. Until these issues are sorted out in a fair and transparent manner, it is my opinion that USAT membership will continue to decline.
Now I understand your perspective that the issues mentioned don't directly affect Johnny GreenBelt or other athletes that are not at the elite level. I also understand (and agree) that the USAT is not an organization that should be dedicated primarily to grassroots efforts. The USAT leaders (i.e. CEO, BoD and National Coaches) are prinicipally responsible for developing world-class athletes competently and efficiently, along with fielding national teams in a fair and transparent manner.
As a paying member of the organization, I have a right to expect some level of competency and fairness on the part of these leaders regardless if I am an elite athlete or not. Thus, the issues mentioned above do indirectly affect Johnny GreenBelt and other athletes that are not at the elite level. When Johny GreenBelt no longer thinks that the organization is working for the the benefit of sport Taekwondo, Johnny can take his membership dues elsewhere.
I think that is what the USAT is currently experiencing. Maybe I am wrong.
