Just joined Okinawan Kenpo

[Shotochem]

Hi all,

I am basically a Shotokan practioner. I have just joined a group of Okinawian Kenpo guys and am starting to cross train. My question to all you Kenpo and Kempo folks is what are the similarities and differences between my new style ans Shotokan. Could someone also explain the difference between Okinawian and the Parker system to me.

So many questions. I feel like a newbie again.

 

[Blindside]

I'm guessing that your Okinawan Kenpo school has little to no similarities to almost any version of Parker Kenpo, but that is just based off the name. In some peoples histories of the kenpo arts, they have James Mitose being taught by a member of the Motubo family (alternately a samurai link, alternately he didn't know diddly). Then (according to those histories) Mitose taught Chow, and Chow taught Parker (alternately Chow wasn't a student of Mitose). But everyone does agree that Chow taught Parker (whew!).

If you follow and believe that very argued lineage, you can find a link to traditional Okinawan Kempo, but regardless, the modern (1960s and forward) kenpo doesn't much resemble those Okinawan systems. Okinawan kempo is probably far closer related to Shotokan than Parker-derived kenpo.

good luck and have fun!

Lamont

 

[Zoran]

I agree with Blindside.

It will also depend on the lineage of the system. Okinawan Kempo tends to be similar to some systems of Karate. Your best bet is to find the lineage and discuss this in the Karate forum if you don't get much of a response here.

Good luck with training and have fun!

 

[Shotochem]

Since I'm so new to this style and am just starting I have no idea about the quality of its lineage.

My new instructor studied directly under Shiguru Nakamura who studied from
Kentsu Yabu, Chomo Hanishiro, and Anko Itosu. Also Shinkinci Kuniyosi.

It is really confusing to me as I generally think of Kenpo and Kempo as the Ed Parker system.

So much to learn, so little time.

 

[okinawagojuryu]

The Okinawan Kenpo that you will be learning will be closer to Shotokan then Parkers Kenpo . They practice similar Kata , the Pinan's or the Heian's in Shotokan , Bassai , etc . There will be some differences , like you might do a cat stance instead of a back stance , blocking metods might be different , as well . But , the style is similar , in that they are both Shuri/Tomari based systems.

 

[arnisador]

The Okinawan Kenpo that you will be learning will be closer to Shotokan then Parkers Kenpo

This is so, but it'll be closer yet to Okinawan styles of Karate like Goju and Shorin. Okinawan Kempo, a.k.a. Ryukyu Kempo, is an early form of karate. It places a greater emphasis on grappling and pressure-point techniques than Japanese Karate (like Shotokan) usually does.

 

[okinawagojuryu]

Okinawan Kenpo is nothing like Goju Ryu , at all . While , I do agree it is close in resemblance to Shorin Ryu , due to the fact it is a Shuri/Tomari based .

 

[arnisador]

It's closer to Goju than it is to Shotokan, which is harder yet. I agree that it's closer still to Shorin.

 

[okinawagojuryu]

The Kihon is totally different . The kata is totally different . They only do one Naha Te Kata , Sanchin , which is done totally different from Goju Ryu . Could you explain how , in your opinion they are similar ? I just dont see it .

 

[Shotochem]

I know from experience that Shotokan is a hard linear style. Is OK more hard or soft? Circular or linear? The group I watched looked very different than what I am used to.

Back stance was completely different, they used a lot of cat stance and seemed to be using a lot of double bone blocks coming at different angle than I was taught. There were also many different types of hand techniques that we rarely practiced that seems to be a regular part of their system. I am getting excited again. These may the missing pieces and fresh start I have been looking for. I need to know if the past 6 yrs of training have been a waste of time or a good solid foundation to build on.

I have reached my MA crossroads and don't know which path to take. :idunno:

 

[arnisador]

Japanese styles tend to be relatively more linear. Okinawan styles tend to be relatively more circular. I prefer Okinawan karate to Japanese--I think it's more practical. But, that's just me. I no longer study either.

 

[arnisador]

Could you explain how , in your opinion they are similar ?

Okinawan styles are generally more similar to one another than they are to Japanese styles--more circularity, more upright and forward-facing stances, more open-hand techniques, more emphasis on grappling, etc. So, a statement like "The Okinawan Kenpo that you will be learning will be closer to Shotokan then Parkers Kenpo ." (sic) is correct, but doesn't go far enough. Ryukyu Kempo and Shotokan are still too dissimilar. It's closer to Goju-ryu and closer yet to Shorin-ryu.

Comparing it to Shotokan made sense because that's what the original poster had studied, but I feel the Japanese Karate vs. Okinawan Karate distinction is quite significant and I was trying to bring that into the discussion.

Do you disagree that Okinawan Kenpo is more similar to Goju than it is to Shotokan?

 

[Pacificshore]

I know from experience that Shotokan is a hard linear style. Is OK more hard or soft? Circular or linear? The group I watched looked very different than what I am used to.

Back stance was completely different, they used a lot of cat stance and seemed to be using a lot of double bone blocks coming at different angle than I was taught. There were also many different types of hand techniques that we rarely practiced that seems to be a regular part of their system. I am getting excited again. These may the missing pieces and fresh start I have been looking for. I need to know if the past 6 yrs of training have been a waste of time or a good solid foundation to build on.

I have reached my MA crossroads and don't know which path to take. :idunno:

Yo Shotochem,

How are ya? Sounds like you've been busy Don't look at your 6 years of training in Shotokan as a waste. It has provided you a solid foundation to build upon as I see it. I too studied Shotokan for several years after having spent most, if not all, my time in the Kenpo art.

In my original art of Kenpo, we did many of the Okinawan katas...pinans, kusanku, anaku, nihachi's, fukiyu's, and so forth. When I compared my time with Shotokan, I to found in Kenpo that we worked more hand techniques/strikes, as well as kicks. We had the 4 basic blocks like in Shotokan, but then learned other ways to execute open hand blocks to parries, which I found that Shotokan did not do. Shotokan however taught me to develop power from body rotation, something I didn't really do in my earlier training. For the most part, I tried to rely on my speed to generate power....didn't always work

Also there was more angling footwork in my Kenpo studies, whereas Shotokan was very linear. Just a different interpretation to get from point A to B What my Kenpo training has taught me besides all the katas, self defense sets, and drills is fluidity in movement, and the multiple methods of striking. Now when I add in the ways to generate power that's the suff I learned from my old Shotokan club Good luck by the way!

 

[okinawagojuryu]

Do you disagree that Okinawan Kenpo is more similar to Goju than it is to Shotokan?

I really do believe okinawan kenpo , atleast that was taught by Odo , who learned from Nakamura , to be closer to Shotokan . I have a friend , though i havent seen him in a while , from what I remember the Kata are almost identical , so are their basics . The Kata , & basics in Goju are totally different . Goju , as the name implies is hard , & soft . To me Okinawan Kenpo is hard , & linear .

 

[okinawagojuryu]

You can take a look at the Okinawan Kenpo kata here , & you will see how close it is to Shotokan : http://karate.dhs.org/katanote.htm

 

[arnisador]

My experiences with Ryukyu Kempo lead me to feel differently. But, I am not expert in it!

 

[Shotochem]

Yo Shotochem,

How are ya? Sounds like you've been busy

Also there was more angling footwork in my Kenpo studies, whereas Shotokan was very linear. Just a different interpretation to get from point A to B What my Kenpo training has taught me besides all the katas, self defense sets, and drills is fluidity in movement, and the multiple methods of striking. Now when I add in the ways to generate power that's the suff I learned from my old Shotokan club Good luck by the way!

Well Pacific,
This is where you've been hanging out lately. I haven't seen you on the other forum.
I noticed they were a lot more fluid in their movements than me. I just thought it was me being an old fart. :ultracool

I did also notice they did not expolde (for lack of a better term) out of their stances and did not drive with the hip as much as we do in Shotokan.
Yet, they seems to have enough power and had IMO better movement.

Now if I can combine the best of these 2 arts, I may have found what I have been looking for.

 

[Gene Williams]

Whatever that is in those clips, it isn't a very good rendition of kata. It surely isn't Okinawan looking...much more like Shotokan.

 

[Pacificshore]

Well Pacific,
This is where you've been hanging out lately. I haven't seen you on the other forum.
I noticed they were a lot more fluid in their movements than me. I just thought it was me being an old fart. :ultracool

I did also notice they did not expolde (for lack of a better term) out of their stances and did not drive with the hip as much as we do in Shotokan.
Yet, they seems to have enough power and had IMO better movement.

Now if I can combine the best of these 2 arts, I may have found what I have been looking for.

Seems to me that you've made the same kind of assessment as I did when I took up Shotokan

 

[BlackCatBonz]

You can take a look at the Okinawan Kenpo kata here , & you will see how close it is to Shotokan : http://karate.dhs.org/katanote.htm

the version of naihanchi on that website looks like it was done by someone who learned it from a shotokan teacher.
this is indicated by the wide kiba dachi and the quick start and stop movements.
funakoshi renamed it tekki for that reason.
the name naihanchi is indicative of the proper kamae used for the kata which tends to be a little more shallow with the toes pointed in slightly a la sanchin, with the movements being a little more fluid and circular.