Just Got Permission to Teach

[wingchun100]

I think those other sorts of places are more likely to expect him to provide his own liability insurance, though.

Where I live (in the exurbs), there are a number of martial arts schools that have a dedicated facility that do this. Sometimes it's because the school owner only knows, say, Taekwondo, but they want to offer grappling or Krav Maga or whatever, so they contract with someone else who can teach that. Other times, I think it's because the school is only a part-time gig for the owner, so they're renting a facility that sits empty half the week.

That might be possible with some of the independent schools around here. Your average McDojo, Black Belt Factory type of school would not appreciate it. In my area, that would be a place like Pai's Tae Kwon Do. However, there is a place called Troy Tae Kwon Do that has just one training studio; a place like that would be more likely to have interest in that.

 

[Andrew Green]

That might be possible with some of the independent schools around here. Your average McDojo, Black Belt Factory type of school would not appreciate it. In my area, that would be a place like Pai's Tae Kwon Do. However, there is a place called Troy Tae Kwon Do that has just one training studio; a place like that would be more likely to have interest in that.

Don't mistake success for lack of quality... Even what you are saying sounds off. You are saying the schools that got their stuff together well enough to know not to let a unknown person without insurance teach in their facility are the McDojo / Belt Factories. That's just knowing how to properly operate a business.

 

[wingchun100]

Don't mistake success for lack of quality... Even what you are saying sounds off. You are saying the schools that got their stuff together well enough to know not to let a unknown person without insurance teach in their facility are the McDojo / Belt Factories. That's just knowing how to properly operate a business.

Not what I said at all. Having dealt with those schools and knowing how they operate is what makes me say they are McDojos/Black Belt Factories.

 

[wingchun100]

And I did not say "schools," as in plural. I mentioned one place that IS a belt factory, while the second one is not. I have not personally gone to Troy TKD myself. However, my friend's son does go there, and he says they are nothing like the other TKD place. (My friend was a student at Pai's when he was younger. Then he quit and went to the same place where I trained in Wing Chun, so he is well aware how Pai's operates.)

 

[extrion]

As an ex-girlfriend who was once a student there said "Pai me more" was a common nickname for the school. Good to see there are several people from the local area. I'm personally in Clifton Park.

And I did not say "schools," as in plural. I mentioned one place that IS a belt factory, while the second one is not. I have not personally gone to Troy TKD myself. However, my friend's son does go there, and he says they are nothing like the other TKD place. (My friend was a student at Pai's when he was younger. Then he quit and went to the same place where I trained in Wing Chun, so he is well aware how Pai's operates.)

 

[wingchun100]

As an ex-girlfriend who was once a student there said "Pai me more" was a common nickname for the school. Good to see there are several people from the local area. I'm personally in Clifton Park.

Someone else on this thread is also from CP. We should start our own club somewhere. What style do you study?

 

[extrion]

Someone else on this thread is also from CP. We should start our own club somewhere. What style do you study?

I study karate at US Budokai in CP. I also study Muso Jikiden Eishen Ryu Iaijutsu.

edit: grammar

 

[WaterGal]

Most community/rec centers want me to have liability insurance. A waiver is not enough. I looked into the insurance, and it was about $800 per year...more than I have at the moment. As for paying for advertising, I was going to use free advertising at first and then invest some of that revenue into an advertising fund.

Oh, just FYI, I was re-upping our insurance yesterday and noticed that K & K Insurance has an insurance option for a martial arts teacher who's an independent contractor that's ~$350/year. Still an investment up front, but not as bad.

 

[wingchun100]

Oh, just FYI, I was re-upping our insurance yesterday and noticed that K & K Insurance has an insurance option for a martial arts teacher who's an independent contractor that's ~$350/year. Still an investment up front, but not as bad.

Thanks for the heads up on that. I will look into it!

 

[Flying Crane]

Oh, just FYI, I was re-upping our insurance yesterday and noticed that K & K Insurance has an insurance option for a martial arts teacher who's an independent contractor that's ~$350/year. Still an investment up front, but not as bad.

Running a business properly does take spending some money up front. Liability insurance is a smart investment. It's good self defense.

If you accept money for your time and talents, then you are running a business, even if you only have one student.

 

[wingchun100]

Running a business properly does take spending some money up front. Liability insurance is a smart investment. It's good self defense.

If you accept money for your time and talents, then you are running a business, even if you only have one student.

What sucks is I don't have the money for it because I have no students, but it would be a bad idea to have students BEFORE I have the insurance.

Another part of me worries about plunking down $350 or whatever for this insurance...and then no one comes.

 

[wingchun100]

I mean, I'm not expecting to quit my day job here, but I WOULD like to at least break even.

 

[wingchun100]

Now here is an interesting conundrum.

I was talking with another student of the same Sifu that gave me permission to teach, and I said I was going to start running my own class. This other student says, "He probably meant teaching friends, friends of friends, and by word of mouth. I don't think he meant you could CHARGE for it."

Here's the thing though: he did not say I COULDN'T do that either. And not for nothing, but what is the difference? I mean, I could see a problem if I had no idea what wing chun is and I went out on the street and said, "Hey, I'm a wing chun grandmaster! Pay me $1000 an hour!" (That $1000 an hour is a number off the top of my head that I thought of as a joke.)

I think the preceived issue is that the Sifu himself does not charge, but in my opinion...that's personal preference. He could easily charge, and he should! I mean, if nothing other than to break even because he DOES have to pay to rent out the place where he teaches class.

 

[wingchun100]

Also, there is another thread with the subject line, "Trying to get people to see the value of my free class." or something to that effect. The person who wrote this thread was struggling to get anyone to attend his free class. Why? Because the idea that people will jump at the chance to do something free is, more often than not, a myth. If you are giving it away for free, then their mindset is that there is no value to it. The same goes for charging "too low."

Anyway, what do you think of that?

 

[Flying Crane]

If you are a homeowner, your homeowners insurance policy should have a liability portion that covers you for injury that someone experiences while in your home, and even for activities that you engage in outside the home (accidents related to automobiles would be excluded, of course). For example, I was told that if I went to the public archery range and one of my arrows went wild and hit someone, my homeowners policy would cover me for the liability.

So, if you teach and do so for free, you may be covered. If you do not collect compensation of any kind, you are not running a business. I do know that once you begin running a business, that changes everything about your homeowners policy and you no longer have coverage, so you need a separate business policy to cover all business activities, even if conducted in your home. Be extra careful about this, insurance companies can be tricky and if you run a business from your home and do not have a business policy, that might actually nullify your homeowners policy so you have no coverage even for normal homeowners stuff. They might not be so draconian as that, but I think it's possible so just be very careful about it.

So you might start small, do it for free to get some regular students and see if there is sufficient interest to warrant buying insurance coverage and start collecting fees and make it a small business.

Check with your insurance provider to make sure what I am describing is accurate, tho. Just tell them you might have people over to do some martial arts training, you are not being paid, it is not a business, and would you be covered for liability if someone gets injured.

 

[wingchun100]

If you are a homeowner, your homeowners insurance policy should have a liability portion that covers you for injury that someone experiences while in your home, and even for activities that you engage in outside the home (accidents related to automobiles would be excluded, of course). For example, I was told that if I went to the public archery range and one of my arrows went wild and hit someone, my homeowners policy would cover me for the liability.

So, if you teach and do so for free, you may be covered. If you do not collect compensation of any kind, you are not running a business. I do know that once you begin running a business, that changes everything about your homeowners policy and you no longer have coverage, so you need a separate business policy to cover all business activities, even if conducted in your home. Be extra careful about this, insurance companies can be tricky and if you run a business from your home and do not have a business policy, that might actually nullify your homeowners policy so you have no coverage even for normal homeowners stuff. They might not be so draconian as that, but I think it's possible so just be very careful about it.

So you might start small, do it for free to get some regular students and see if there is sufficient interest to warrant buying insurance coverage and start collecting fees and make it a small business.

Check with your insurance provider to make sure what I am describing is accurate, tho. Just tell them you might have people over to do some martial arts training, you are not being paid, it is not a business, and would you be covered for liability if someone gets injured.

That would be something I would call and ask, but I am not going to teach out of my home. Per our lease we are not allowed to run any kind of business out of our apartments. (Oh yeah, that is an important part too: I am not a homeowner.)

 

[Flying Crane]

That would be something I would call and ask, but I am not going to teach out of my home. Per our lease we are not allowed to run any kind of business out of our apartments. (Oh yeah, that is an important part too: I am not a homeowner.)

Good point, and I'm not sure if renters insurance would offer the same kind of liability coverage. At any rate, it was just an idea.

 

[wingchun100]

Good point, and I'm not sure if renters insurance would offer the same kind of liability coverage. At any rate, it was just an idea.

I appreciate the help.

 

[Flying Crane]

Insurance issues aside, there is something to be said about keeping a very small group and doing it just for the enjoyment of it and not for pay. If nothing else, you get to see if you actually enjoy it,mand see how many people are interested before you make the investment of turning it into a business.

I had one student for a few years until he moved to China. We worked in my back yard and I never charged him for it, and he wouldn't have been able to pay anyways. It was a very casual arrangement and I just enjoyed having him as a training partner, but also it gave me the chance to try some of my own ideas about drills and practice methods, so I wasn't just copying exactly how my sifu runs his classes. I think I had some good ideas, it was a great experience for me and I think I grew a whole lot from it. That can be far more valuable than making some money from it.

 

[wingchun100]

Insurance issues aside, there is something to be said about keeping a very small group and doing it just for the enjoyment of it and not for pay. If nothing else, you get to see if you actually enjoy it,mand see how many people are interested before you make the investment of turning it into a business.

I had one student for a few years until he moved to China. We worked in my back yard and I never charged him for it, and he wouldn't have been able to pay anyways. It was a very casual arrangement and I just enjoyed having him as a training partner, but also it gave me the chance to try some of my own ideas about drills and practice methods, so I wasn't just copying exactly how my sifu runs his classes. I think I had some good ideas, it was a great experience for me and I think I grew a whole lot from it. That can be far more valuable than making some money from it.

At the same time, there is nothing wrong with wanting to make money from doing something you love. I mean, isn't that the very definition of a dream job?