Judo... will be?

[elder999]

Did he go to court?

Yet Renzo is still well-respected throughout the MA community, and his black belts and schools are some of the best around.

So this is much ado about nothing.

It's really not "nothing," and no question of his skills or skills as an instructor or the skills of his students who go on to be instructors or the skills of their students-it's about character.

If you don't understand that, that's fine-I think @Manny does. If you wouldn't care about that, that's fine-I think Manny would.

To each his own-hell, I trained with a cold-blooded murderer.....

 

[Tony Dismukes]

It's really not "nothing," and no question of his skills or skills as an instructor or the skills of his students who go on to be instructors or the skills of their students-it's about character.

If you don't understand that, that's fine-I think @Manny does. If you wouldn't care about that, that's fine-I think Manny would.

To each his own-hell, I trained with a cold-blooded murderer.....

I would absolutely not defend Renzo's behavior in this instance (or a few others that I am aware of). I would not suggest that anyone take him as a role-model for how to live a peaceful, law-abiding life.

I will note that Renzo does not present himself as a role-model for behavior off the mat or push for students to adopt his philosophy about when to fight. I also haven't noticed that his students or their students are any more prone to start fights, show poor judgment, or exhibit criminal behavior than any other group of martial artists I've met.

If we are going to be judging martial artists by the character of their teacher or their teacher's teacher, then all of us in the BJJ community must be scumbags. Helio Gracie's character, as evidenced by certain of his actions over the years, is nothing that I would ever want myself or my students to emulate.

For that matter, we aren't the only ones who would have that problem. Lots of martial arts have shady characters in the family tree. According to what I've read from Ellis Amdur, even Morehei Ueshiba wasn't exactly a saint.

Fortunately, most of us learn our character outside the dojo.

I have no knowledge of the instructor at the academy in Veracruz, so I can't offer any opinions pro or con. I would suggest that Manny check out the school himself and draw his own conclusions.

 

[elder999]

I would absolutely not defend Renzo's behavior in this instance (or a few others that I am aware of). I would not suggest that anyone take him as a role-model for how to live a peaceful, law-abiding life.

I will note that Renzo does not present himself as a role-model for behavior off the mat or push for students to adopt his philosophy about when to fight. I also haven't noticed that his students or their students are any more prone to start fights, show poor judgment, or exhibit criminal behavior than any other group of martial artists I've met.

If we are going to be judging martial artists by the character of their teacher or their teacher's teacher, then all of us in the BJJ community must be scumbags. Helio Gracie's character, as evidenced by certain of his actions over the years, is nothing that I would ever want myself or my students to emulate.

For that matter, we aren't the only ones who would have that problem. Lots of martial arts have shady characters in the family tree. According to what I've read from Ellis Amdur, even Morehei Ueshiba wasn't exactly a saint.

Fortunately, most of us learn our character outside the dojo.

I have no knowledge of the instructor at the academy in Veracruz, so I can't offer any opinions pro or con. I would suggest that Manny check out the school himself and draw his own conclusions.

And over the years, I've had contact with instructors whose extra dojo character was more than questionable....and some of my own actions as a younger man have been less than appropriate, if not downright "effed-up."

But I was a younger man...Renzo Gracie was arrested in Manhattan for a bar-brawl-last year, and charged with assaulting a bouncer. He was 47 years old. His conduct inside the ring has been unsportsmanlike. That's not to take anything away from him as a fighter or martial-artist, or even instructor and trainer, as some top fighters have sought him out to refine or develop their skills.

I just don't think a guy who's pushing 50 should be as delighted and clearly in the wrong about a street encounter as he was, cultural reasons or not, it shows bad judgement. With that being said, I have trained with some more dubious characters over the years, because there was some aspect of their skillset and knowledge that I felt was worth it-a Renzo Gracie academy is likely a fine place to train BJJ....I just wouldn't want to be associated with that individual in any way, personally, and would prefer not to have his name tied to mine....think of it this way: in the age of Google, one can expect to be......well, googled. You have a brand new "Renzo Gracie affiliated" studio with a kids program. Do you really think Susie Suburban Soccer Mom is going to bring little Johnny in after doing her due diligence on Renzo Gracie? Do you think maybe she wouldn't even let little Johnny anywhere near BJJ at all after reading about some of the things Renzo has done?

 

[The Great Gigsy]

I have a limited knowledge of bjj but from what I know the Gracie family are some of the best, and therefore the training is probably top notch. BJJ could very well be the better fit for Manny as it involves fewer impacts than he would experience in judo. I just don't think this particular instructor is a good representation of the art based on theses actions.

 

[ballen0351]

MyJudo instructor is 78 he still takes throws. Manny will be fine. Just start out slow you will be fine.

 

[elder999]

MyJudo instructor is 78 he still takes throws. Manny will be fine. Just start out slow you will be fine.

I know he's keeping count, though-I am

and I was advised to start doing so by my seniors, maybe 15 years ago, when I was closer to Manny's present age.....(funny how that number just keeps getting smaller.....)

 

[ballen0351]

I know he's keeping count, though-I am

and I was advised to start doing so by my seniors, maybe 15 years ago, when I was closer to Manny's present age.....(funny how that number just keeps getting smaller.....)

I'm pretty sure something's wrong with him. He trains a college judo team 5 days a week. A military/police class twice a week after the college class. He takes a few throws every class. He says he does breakfalls 7 days a week. I hope I'm still able to walk at 78 let alone get tossed around by college kids 5 days a week.

 

[Tony Dismukes]

I have a limited knowledge of bjj but from what I know the Gracie family are some of the best, and therefore the training is probably top notch. BJJ could very well be the better fit for Manny as it involves fewer impacts than he would experience in judo. I just don't think this particular instructor is a good representation of the art based on theses actions.

Just to be clear, Renzo is not the instructor at the academy in Manny's town. That school is just affiliated with him.

As far as being a good representation of BJJ (or at least its history) ... yeah Renzo kind of is, for good and bad. The Gracie family developed both their reputation and their technical expertise through fighting. They fought in rings and cages, on streets and beaches. They fought for ego, for money, for the family honor, and to promote their family art. They were raised to never back down from a fight, even when legality or good sense might argue otherwise.

Renzo is a classic example of the family tradition. He's friendly, generous, fearless, technically expert, a great instructor, hot-tempered, and eager to fight under any circumstances. If you were attacked on the street and he happened to walk by, he'd be the first person to jump in and help you. On the other hand, if you wanted to go for a quiet night out with friends and avoid any trouble, he might not be the person you'd want to invite.

None of this is to suggest that BJJ practitioners as a whole (even those affiliated with a Gracie school) are necessarily inclined towards the traditional Gracie mindset. I'm certainly not, even though I take advantage of the knowledge that the Gracies gained through their lifestyle.

 

[Hanzou]

I have a limited knowledge of bjj but from what I know the Gracie family are some of the best, and therefore the training is probably top notch. BJJ could very well be the better fit for Manny as it involves fewer impacts than he would experience in judo.

That, and Manny did state that he was afraid that the Judo school he was looking at was also too tournament and kid-focused.

He would have neither of those issues at a Gjj school.

 

[The Great Gigsy]

@Tony Dismukes, thank you. I have definitely know some families like that, so now his mind set makes since. I guess my biggest issue is the joy he expressed from the incident.

 

[elder999]

[. I guess my biggest issue is the joy he expressed from the incident.

I know, right???

 

[Manny]

You live in Veracruz? What's wrong with this place;

Jiu Jitsu Renzo Gracie Veracruz

This BJJ Dojo was near the TKD Dojang, they close because the dojo fee (montly) and went back to another place, I located them again but the day I went to see them there were no students or sensei.

BJJ is something exotic down here, not so many BJJ dojos and some of them are fake.

El Manny

 

[Langenschwert]

Judo is a great art. I took it up at 41. I did suffer a serious injury as a result, so caveat emptor. The most important thing (even more important than breakfalls) is be careful who you spar with. There are some people who don't care if they hurt you in randori. You'll be able to tell very easily. Don't spar those guys, at least not standing. If you're careful who you spar and learn your breakfalls, you'll be as safe as you can be in a full-contact sport.

On the plus side, my Judo sensei says that it's better to take up Judo later in life, in that you have the focus to pay attention to what you're being taught that you don't when you're in your teens. Take it slow and enjoy it. Besides, combining good striking with good judo will make you into a wrecking machine, which is of course, very cool.

Judo has made me a better martial artist for sure, and it's only been two years.