Judo or Wrestling?

[kuniggety]

Has there been a Judo match won by a sub?
I dont think that is too common.

There is more evidence of wrestling being used in self defence than tennis or golf though.

like 50,000 years of it.

Recently, I saw an article about a judoka using a flying arm bar in some big Judo Open in France. The losing guy looked piiiiiiiisssed. They're very rare in judo.

 

[Tony Dismukes]

There are some big differences between Judo and wrestling. The main difference is that in wrestling you're trying to pin your opponent and in Judo you're trying to submit your opponent. Also, wrestling does not have the throws that Judo has and you're much more restricted as to what you can do. In wrestling you can't choke your opponent or use any of the joint locks that they use in Judo. A wrestler would have no problem pinning a Judokan but a Judokan wouldn't care if they're pinned since they can still fight. Likewise a Judokan would have no problem getting a wrestler in a submission hold and once somebody is in a submission hold the fight is over. If you're looking for self defense I would say definitely go with Judo. Wrestling is not meant to be for self defense, its meant to be a sport and its not intended to be used for self defense any more than other sports such as Tennis or Golf.

Judo matches can be won by throw, pin, or submission. Due to the way the rules are currently structured, throws are most common.

Most throws found in Judo can also be found in wrestling, although there are some variations you won't find because they rely on gripping the gi. There are also a number of takedown variations used in wrestling which you won't typically find in Judo. Overall, the study of throws and takedowns is probably equally deep and wide in Judo and wrestling.

Even though most modern sport wrestling rules don't allow chokes or joint locks, wrestling can be and has been used very effectively in self-defense. As drop bear notes, this has been true for a very long time. You can read old fencing manuals which emphasize the importance of wrestling skills, you can watch real fights on YouTube in which wrestlers absolutely destroy their opponents, or you can look at the many old UFC matches won by wrestlers (before the sport evolved so every fighter was proficient in wrestling, jiu-jitsu, and striking).

BTW, it's judoka, not judokan.

Has there been a Judo match won by a sub?
I dont think that is too common.

Plenty of Judo matches are won by submission. It's not as common as wins by throw, because the rules limit time allowed on the ground. The flip side of this is that those judoka who do specialize in submissions get really good at hitting them fast when the fight hits the ground, because they only have a short time before the ref stands them back up.

 

[PhotonGuy]

There is more evidence of wrestling being used in self defence than tennis or golf though.

Im sure wrestling could be modified to be very effective in self defense, but what Im saying is when its taught that its taught to be a sport and the intention is not for it to be used any more in self defense than sports such as tennis or golf. At least that's my experience with wrestling.

 

[PhotonGuy]

Judo matches can be won by throw, pin, or submission. Due to the way the rules are currently structured, throws are most common.

Well yes, I do believe you get points for throws during a match and so you can win by throws by getting more points than your opponent. As for pinning, its not the same kind of pinning as done in wrestling where both shoulder blades have to be touching the matt for roughly 3 seconds, rather you pin your opponent from getting them in various holds and maintaining the hold for a certain length of time.

Most throws found in Judo can also be found in wrestling, although there are some variations you won't find because they rely on gripping the gi. There are also a number of takedown variations used in wrestling which you won't typically find in Judo. Overall, the study of throws and takedowns is probably equally deep and wide in Judo and wrestling.

From my experience in wrestling, they don't use the shoulder throws, neck throws, and waist throws that they use in Judo. They do sometimes use a variation of the Osoto Gari or leg throw, the slam as they call it in wrestling, but it is considered vicious by wrestling standards.

 

[Kung Fu Wang]

Im sure wrestling could be modified to be very effective in self defense, but what Im saying is when its taught that its taught to be a sport and the intention is not for it to be used any more in self defense than sports such as tennis or golf. At least that's my experience with wrestling.

It depends on how you may train. Your path may be "sport" but your goal can be more than that.

 

[drop bear]

Im sure wrestling could be modified to be very effective in self defense, but what Im saying is when its taught that its taught to be a sport and the intention is not for it to be used any more in self defense than sports such as tennis or golf. At least that's my experience with wrestling.

So learning to throw a guy on on their head is not a better self defense than hitting a ball with a stick.

A wrestler using just legal wrestling and nothing else could cripple you if he felt the urge.

 

[Tony Dismukes]

Well yes, I do believe you get points for throws during a match and so you can win by throws by getting more points than your opponent

Not just points. In Judo the ideal is to win with a single decisive throw which ends the match.

As for pinning, its not the same kind of pinning as done in wrestling where both shoulder blades have to be touching the matt for roughly 3 seconds, rather you pin your opponent from getting them in various holds and maintaining the hold for a certain length of time.

Yeah, in Judo the pin has to be held longer and the rules are slightly different for what qualifies as a pin. Still, pinning is part of the art and sport of Judo. At the lower levels of competition, wrestlers have entered Judo tournaments and won by pins.

From my experience in wrestling, they don't use the shoulder throws, neck throws, and waist throws that they use in Judo.

How extensive is your wrestling experience? All those throws exist in wrestling. You're more likely to see them in Greco-Roman than in Folkstyle or Freestyle wrestling, but a high level wrestler will know them.

It's true that wrestling is primarily taught as a sport. So is Judo in most schools. They are still both very effective for self-defense. Despite the fact that they are commonly considered unarmed systems, they can also be considered weapon arts. That weapon is the planet. Get hit with a planet to the head and most people won't keep fighting that hard.

 

[PhotonGuy]

How extensive is your wrestling experience? All those throws exist in wrestling. You're more likely to see them in Greco-Roman than in Folkstyle or Freestyle wrestling, but a high level wrestler will know them.

I did wrestling in summer camp and in elementary school and in jr. high. We were mostly taught to use takedowns where you go for your opponent's legs and we were taught pinning techniques such as the cradle hold. We were also taught the top and bottom starting positions in addition to the neutral position.