Judo or Wrestling?

[Gerry Seymour]

Depends on what kind of wrestling. But either would be great, although I'm a fan of working with a gi. I think it's more realistic, as people don't generally walk around in a rash guard or a singlet.

Interesting viewpoint. I've always trained in a gi, and looked at where it's unrealistic (in the South, lots of t-shirts, so can't depend upon using the fabric for leverage, etc.), but there is the other side. You do have to be aware of how your own clothing could be used against you (and a gi is pretty near "worst case" for this, so a good training tool), and any kind of jacket or heavy shirt starts to give you many of the benefits of a gi, as far as leverage and firm purchase.

 

[Gerry Seymour]

I didn't know that. Thanks, Tony.

I'm assuming I'm wrong, but I'll ask anyway...

Is the pin basically holding an ippon throw? I've seen throws that commentators have said it would've been an ippon if the thrower held it (or stuck the landing, so to speak) for a bit longer. Probably two different things, but I like new information. And I'm too lazy to google Judo rules.

Tony's explanation is much clearer than reading the official rules would have been, anyway, JR.

 

[PiedmontChun]

hi everyone thank u so so much for all your insight and really experienced advice. i will try and reply to you all individually later... just wanted to share first...
i just got back from my first wrestling class! it was HARRRRRD ..... i mean.. i never knew it was SO much gymnastics!! the warm up nearly killed me... cartwheels, shooting forward rolls, backward rolls on the head!? and forward and backward handstand flips?!!? lol ... i felt like a panda!! an old old panda... lol

so the actual class made me laugh so hard i couldnt breathe properly... i dont know why i just really find the grappling type arts very fun and very funny.... i mean i LOVE them SO SO much... but they are so funny because you are in these "three stooges" type positions...

anyway, we learnt 2 moves. and practiced lots. the teacher didn't really say too much about me. but i accidentally scored 2 points! and i dont remember how! lolll .....apart from that i really dont know what i dont know yet... (i have reached a point in my bjj to know that i dont know alot at all) it was just so tiring... i liked that i was allowed to use my size and strength (im 5'6 but 85kgs/190lbs and a lifter)... i was exhausted after a real wrestling practice of 2 mins tho... and did not last another 4mins. i gave myself permission to sit out of it in the end because i know that if i push i will injure myself as i hav done so so many times before (also have systemic lupus a life long autoimmune disease and 3 months out from breast cancer treatments).

i liked it except the insane warm up!! does judo have these warmups?! i will try my best to go to a judo class this sat or next sat... i liked that in tnite's wrestling class i understood what the teacher was doing... even tho it took a few times before i got my head around the first thing he taught which was ... i forget the name... but you pull the arm towards you adn somehow get behind the person etc.

it was halarious as i was hopping around on one leg trying to not get taken down.. and even more halariousous when my guy was laughing at me laughing so much that i couldnt breathe...

Judo definitely has conditioning and cardio, but it can vary on the club and school (and maybe the physicality of the students). I started Judo recently, and its normal for us to stretch a good 10 minutes to begin class, do various breakfalls across the mat, shrimp on our backs across the mat, before getting into any specific instruction. Often class ends with some kind of cardio finisher. Working on techniques while moving around the mat with a partner (versus static) can be tiring. Judo can have people of all different ages and sizes though, so obviously some "go harder" than others. I find it to be a good workout but manageable, even if you aren't a super athlete (which I am certainly not).

 

[wingchun100]

How do i know whih one is more suited to me?
Im quite a big girl. I am reasonably strong. And i dont have too many issues with speed (used to do salsa). But im not the best at cardio... i get puffed out quite quickly in most activities. I love bjj and muay thai so far and i just want to learn one more m.a...
Should i do judo or wrestling?

I have read on other posts judo these days is so restricted by fed laws that its become wrestling with a gi... and iv read that wrestling is easier to learn.

I would like to do the one thats easy to learn when compared to the other, and the one that will be better in a self defense situation.
Any suggestions?

Thank u!

Even if your cardio is not great now, you will get there. All you have to do is rest when you need it, even if that means 2 minutes into class. Over time you will notice you don't take a break until 4 minutes...then 6...then 10...and so on, until you get to a point where you might not need any at all.

 

[marques]

I wrestled for quite some time and coached it. I don't have any Judo experience, so take what I say about Judo as speculation...

Both should give you an equally good workout, if the intensity of training is equal, ie how much time is spent "on the mat" vs instructional type stuff.

The point of wrestling is to get your opponent on their back and pin them, or to score more points. There's no "finishing them;" only pinning them.

Judo's emphasis is a finishing throw, joint lock, or choke. Yes there are points, but that's not my perceived ultimate goal.

Judo will have a syllabus and a somewhat rigid structure to advancing. Wrestling will have a loose structure to advancing.

Wrestling can be easily adapted to "the streets." Throwing someone onto the pavement is going to hurt, regardless of it's a judo or wrestling throw. It's easy to make wrestling holds/moves painful to an opponent. Judo's holds are designed to be painful, not to get someone onto their back for a pin fall.

Judo and wrestling throws may look different and be named differently, but the principles are the same - it's body mechanics and the feeling of push/pull that makes a throw truly successful, not muscling it.

Wrestling has weight classes. Judo competition does too. If you're training non-competitively, judo classes may have you train with a lot of different weight people. Wrestlers who weigh 100 lbs don't wrestle people who weigh 150 very often.

It depends on what tickles your fancy more. Watch a few sessions of each and decide. I haven't been around too many judoka, but the ones I have been around were just as tough as any wrestler I've been around. There's no hiding in wrestling nor judo. You can throw people or you can't. You can submit/choke people or you can't. You can take people down and pin them or you can't. There's really nothing hypothetical like "I could have knife handed him in the throat, but I'm not allowed to as there is in many striking arts. Disclaimer- I'm a karate guy, so I'm not bashing.

I cannot disagree with you.

My Judo comes from my self-defence training and from a few months of jiu-Jitsu. My Wrestling comes from a few months of MMA (which had also striking and BJJ classes, so MMA there was pretty much Wrestling for MMA).

I believe my perception is valid for the experience I had. But no two schools are equal. And none of my training is from a 'pure' Judo or 'pure' Wrestling...

 

[JR 137]

I cannot disagree with you.

My Judo comes from my self-defence training and from a few months of jiu-Jitsu. My Wrestling comes from a few months of MMA (which had also striking and BJJ classes, so MMA there was pretty much Wrestling for MMA).

I believe my perception is valid for the experience I had. But no two schools are equal. And none of my training is from a 'pure' Judo or 'pure' Wrestling...

Every opinion, so long as it's an informed one, is equally valid imo. Yours is obviously informed.

My wrestling experience is purely competitive wrestling. Training and coaching. If I was training or coaching it for MMA, it would probably have different elements to it. The only wrong approach would be training/coaching for the wrong application.

 

[JR 137]

@whitebeltforever - what style wrestling was it, freestyle, Greco-Roman, or something else?

Edit: You standing on one leg to avoid takedowns eliminates Greco-Roman from the list.

 

[JP3]

RE the O/P what I'd recommend is that you find yourself an old-school judo school, which doesnt' focus on going to tournaments. Tournament judo is where all the rules are going wack... find a Gentleman's Judo program, technically proficient, and a "Who gives a..." attitude about the current tournament rule structure. That's the ticket, IMO.

 

[oftheherd1]

Judo definitely has conditioning and cardio, but it can vary on the club and school (and maybe the physicality of the students). I started Judo recently, and its normal for us to stretch a good 10 minutes to begin class, do various breakfalls across the mat, shrimp on our backs across the mat, before getting into any specific instruction. Often class ends with some kind of cardio finisher. Working on techniques while moving around the mat with a partner (versus static) can be tiring. Judo can have people of all different ages and sizes though, so obviously some "go harder" than others. I find it to be a good workout but manageable, even if you aren't a super athlete (which I am certainly not).

We did some things like that in the Hapkido I studied. We stretched for at least 10 minutes, then did cardio such as pushups, situps and fist clenching. It was sort of interspersed. Then we usually kicked for another 10-20 minutes, which was cardio and kick training, and mind training, then we studied techniques, which often included break falls. I don't recall doing cool down work after class, but we often did in the TKD I studied many years ago.

Depending on the amount of students and the amount of time, kicking could be brutal. We would do all our basic kicks, then often be given a series of kicks, usually at least 10, that we individually were required to perform one right after the other, without making a mistake as to which kick was next in the series, kicking the focus pads as we went. Then run to the end of the line so we could do it again. Until you learned to keep all that in your mind, you didn't want to be first in line. And often after a couple of turns, the series would change.

Fun, fun, fun.

 

[Langenschwert]

As a baby judoka (three years in now), I say both are well-worth training. I'd be just as happy with wrestling (especially Catch Wrestling) if there was no Judo here.

It is cool to learn how to use an opponent's clothes against them. Anything you can do to someone in a gi can be applied to a jean jacket or similar if self-defence is a goal. No leg grabs allowed in Judo these days though. We learn them for grading, but they're banned in competition.

However, neither are really self-defence arts anymore. Finding an old school Judo dojo is a long shot, and finding a HEMA club that does old style kampfringen well is also unlikely. That being said, both Judoka (except me) and wrestlers are tough customers and can usually handle themselves well enough. Don't think that either will help you much against a knife attack though.

And Judo is just a type of wrestling with a stout jacket on. There's some celtic jacket wrestling (Gouren, etc) that is fairly similar. It's not magic, just physics.

 

[whitebeltforever]

hi everyone, i am so grateful for all ur help! i think i have made the decision to actually not go try the judo class... i'm pretty certain i will like wrestling better... i dont think i want to be thrown from that high... lol... i also saw a 1.5 hour typical judo class on youtube where they just set up a camera and let it roll for the whole class and it reminded me very much of my karate days where there's about a million drills, preparations and things... which just doesnt make sense or work for my style of learning. and i know that someone here said (and i will reply individually) that in wrestling the learning style is kind of more you learn a few moves then lots of practice with less detailed technical explainations? i prefer that i think... and i really have alot of trouble with anything that coordinates the upper body/and limbs. in karate i couldn't really even get the basic blocks. i can maybe remember 1? and that was less than 2 years ago and i trained for around 3-4 months. i also don't want to be too straight and high up like alot of you have mentioned... i will def i think have trouble with the wrestling flips... but i'm not really wanting to train at any sort of competitive level. i also get the feeling that its slightly more casual learning culture in wrestling? like some of you have said about the japanese styles' culture being a little more ridgid?

i'm pretty sure it was freestyle wrestling i did the other night. i really dont know how i will survive the warmups but the actual class content was more than managable.

i am also a bit overwhelmed at the amount of things that i'm trying to do at once. bjj, muay thai, wrestling, weights... and i can kinda only do one thing per day and i need about at least 2 -3 days rest so i am running out of energy and time to try out new classes like the judo one at the other gym... i always hav this need to try everything before i "buy" but this time i'm really not sure if that's entirely neccesary? especially with so many of you saying that they are so similar? when i watched the 1.5 hour class on youtube i remember thinking that class just looks no fun at all... untill maybe the last 15mins... i'm sure every dojo is diff... but i think like many of you say, i will get lots of benefits if i do either.

so ...yeah i think i will stick with the wrestling! thanks SO SO much everyone and pls continue the conversation if you like i always feel so lucky i found this group where i can access so many expert advice at my fingertips!!!!! thankuthankuuuu!

 

[whitebeltforever]

The only way to know that is to give them both a try.

thanks for your reply!
and yes i agree... but at the same time i hav decided that maybe i dont need to try everything first... as i usually do... and then i wear myself out... lol pls see my latest group reply... but i saw a whole class on youtube and decided judo isnt as enjoyable as wrestling for me... so will giv wrestling a try

My opinion on that has always been to do the one which you most enjoy. That way you are more likely to stick with it, and therefore become good at it.

absolutely agree! if its no fun i wont do it x)

 

[whitebeltforever]

Thanks for bringing back some great memories

thanks for your reply! pls see my latest group reply...
n haha ur welcome... i think wrestling is heaps fun so i am gona stick with that!!! x)

 

[whitebeltforever]

Both Judo and wrestling will build your cardio quite a bit.

thanks for your reply! pls see my latest group reply...

Unless Australia has some unusual laws I don't know about, Judo is not restricted by law. The organizations which regulate the international sport of Judo have made a number of changes over the years, some of which are not always popular with practitioners. If you train at a school which is more oriented towards self-defense or the traditional art, then the latest tournament rules will be less of a concern for you.



***SOrry i meant federation rules...

Judo is a form of jacketed wrestling, one of many throughout the world. Nevertheless it has unique characteristics of its own (although the techniques can all be found in other arts).

***this was really helpful!!

Nope. I'd say they're equally challenging. However the two arts traditionally have different approaches to teaching and training, so you may find that one fits your style of learning better.

***i dont know if youtube counts but after seeing a typical 1.5hr class of judo i really didnt like the looks of it... wrestling was fun tho!!

Both arts can be used very effectively in self-defense. However both arts are more commonly taught from a sport perspective than from a self-defense one. That means you will likely have to do the work of figuring out how the techniques have to be tweaked for a self-defense context.

***that's a shame but as long as i can utilise it to better bjj then i'm happy. and plus its really fun!!!

I will add that both arts are excellent complements to your BJJ and will make you a better BJJ practitioner.

If you have access to instruction in both arts, I would try them both and see which class clicks with you the best.

 

[whitebeltforever]

Depends on what kind of wrestling. But either would be great, although I'm a fan of working with a gi. I think it's more realistic, as people don't generally walk around in a rash guard or a singlet.

thanks for your reply! pls see my latest group reply...

 

[whitebeltforever]

I wrestled for quite some time and coached it. I don't have any Judo experience, so take what I say about Judo as speculation...

Both should give you an equally good workout, if the intensity of training is equal, ie how much time is spent "on the mat" vs instructional type stuff.

The point of wrestling is to get your opponent on their back and pin them, or to score more points. There's no "finishing them;" only pinning them.

Judo's emphasis is a finishing throw, joint lock, or choke. Yes there are points, but that's not my perceived ultimate goal.

Judo will have a syllabus and a somewhat rigid structure to advancing. Wrestling will have a loose structure to advancing.

*********thanks for your reply! pls see my latest group reply...
its too early for me to know about the structure of the class but even from 1 class it was quite managable (in the actual wrestling instruction parts of the class)
for me i get confused if i do too many things at once. i learn simply but i learn deeply. and in the class we didn't do anymore than 2 moves and loads of practical application. so that was awsome for me and suits my learning style.

Wrestling can be easily adapted to "the streets." Throwing someone onto the pavement is going to hurt, regardless of it's a judo or wrestling throw. It's easy to make wrestling holds/moves painful to an opponent. Judo's holds are designed to be painful, not to get someone onto their back for a pin fall.

Judo and wrestling throws may look different and be named differently, but the principles are the same - it's body mechanics and the feeling of push/pull that makes a throw truly successful, not muscling it.

Wrestling has weight classes. Judo competition does too. If you're training non-competitively, judo classes may have you train with a lot of different weight people. Wrestlers who weigh 100 lbs don't wrestle people who weigh 150 very often.

**********this is a good point... and i hope i never encounter the need to defend myself... but yeah good point to consider...

It depends on what tickles your fancy more. Watch a few sessions of each and decide. I haven't been around too many judoka, but the ones I have been around were just as tough as any wrestler I've been around. There's no hiding in wrestling nor judo. You can throw people or you can't. You can submit/choke people or you can't. You can take people down and pin them or you can't. There's really nothing hypothetical like "I could have knife handed him in the throat, but I'm not allowed to as there is in many striking arts. Disclaimer- I'm a karate guy, so I'm not bashing.

***********lolz at the "i'm not allowed to knife him in the throat" point!!! xD

this was SERIOUSLY helpful thanks so much for your input!!

 

[whitebeltforever]

Wrestle if you can find a good club. In Australia it is so rare it is like a super power.

Cardio is not something you have or dont by the way.

You have control over that.

***********thanks for your reply! pls see my latest group reply...
really good point about the cardio!!! and yeah i really havent looked into it much but this coach is an international competitor from brasil. and i thought his coaching was good. are u in aus?

 

[whitebeltforever]

thanks for your reply and fantastic input! pls see my latest group reply...

From my short experience, I find Wrestling more physical than Judo. Perhaps Wrestling is easier to learn. Perhaps Judo is more compatible with BJJ...

For self-defence... there are too many variables. Judo and Wrestling are more than two things, within two names. Both may be very effective (especially given you are training striking elsewhere).

I would choose Judo because it is more technical and more gentle to the body. (But in your place, I would try Wrestling, too, if there is a handy gym).

 

[whitebeltforever]

thanks for your reply! pls see my latest group reply... your input was SO helpful thanks heaps!!!!

I can't cut and paste multiple quotes, so please bear with me...

I've seen a lot of Judo instructional stuff (I guess that means I know what I'm talking about ). I don't think one looks much easier to learn than another. Judo may have more techniques (?), being a long-term and formal structured curriculum. I'd imagine that once you get past the basics and start developing deeper strategy, both would be equally difficult, as would any MA.

BJJ came from Judo, and I've seen sources state Brazilian Judo would've been a more appropriate name for the art.

I don't know if Judo is "more technical," but I've seen Judo teachers (again, I'm a YouTube warrior right now) explain techniques far more thoroughly than wrestling coaches. Perhaps the perfectionist Japanese mentality (without stereotyping)? Wrestling coaches will more often briefly explain a technique, have you do it a few times until you've got the basics of it, then leave you to practice it with a partner over and over.

As far as more gentle on the body... no submissions in wrestling. How hard you're thrown is up to your partner(s) and how well you land. The better the wrestler, the more control in the throw; they want you where they want you so they don't have to work as hard to pin you. Some advanced wrestlers will throw you "harder," but they're usually intentionally doing that.

Take it all with a grain of salt. I spent exactly 2 hours in Judo one night with a friend during open-mat.

 

[whitebeltforever]

thanks for your reply! pls see my latest group reply... ur input was v helpful!!!

As a baby judoka (three years in now), I say both are well-worth training. I'd be just as happy with wrestling (especially Catch Wrestling) if there was no Judo here.

It is cool to learn how to use an opponent's clothes against them. Anything you can do to someone in a gi can be applied to a jean jacket or similar if self-defence is a goal. No leg grabs allowed in Judo these days though. We learn them for grading, but they're banned in competition.

However, neither are really self-defence arts anymore. Finding an old school Judo dojo is a long shot, and finding a HEMA club that does old style kampfringen well is also unlikely. That being said, both Judoka (except me) and wrestlers are tough customers and can usually handle themselves well enough. Don't think that either will help you much against a knife attack though.

And Judo is just a type of wrestling with a stout jacket on. There's some celtic jacket wrestling (Gouren, etc) that is fairly similar. It's not magic, just physics.