Jesse Ventura, just a tad crazy?

[seasoned]

In the United States, the Constitution is in charge. This document recognizes our natural rights and everybody within it's jurisdiction is mandated to follow this document as the supreme law of the land.

I have no problem here. You are peaching to the choir. I was in the military serving honorably, plus as I type I am under oath of office to support the Constitution of the United States of America.

(1) If we recognize the TSA as a legitimate organization with legitimate powers, we're saying that the Constitution has no meaning. We're saying that all of the people who swore an oath to uphold and protect it have basically sworn an oath to a worthless piece of paper.

(2) Americans desperately need to put aside the guns and butter state propaganda and remember what it means to be an American.

(1) Agreed, In most cases they abuse their status as airport screener, and the whole uniform and badge thing has gone to their head.
(2) ???

Here's a quote from Jesse Ventura that I think sums up the situation, "Liberty is security from tyranny

I'm on board with this.

Jesse Ventura in my opinion, is a piece of work.

 

[elder999]

Jesse Ventura in my opinion, is a piece of work.

Are you using that as a wrestling term, "work?" :lfao:

Jesse's an entertainer. That's what makes the lawsuit frivolous-he's doing it for attention, for his damn TV show, and not with any serious intention-hell, he already moved to Mexico back in 2006.

 

[seasoned]

Are you using that as a wrestling term, "work?" :lfao:.

Jesse's an entertainer. That's what makes the lawsuit frivolous-he's doing it for attention, for his damn TV show, and not with any serious intention-hell, he already moved to Mexico back in 2006.

I'm glad you mentioned that, because without knowing him, the picture of him posted a few posts back, would give pause to the unknowing.

 

[Makalakumu]

Would you say the same thing about Ronald Reagan?

No matter what you think of him, he's still an American and still has Constitutional Rights. The lawsuit deserves to be heard, IMO.

Regarding guns and butter state propaganda, it's the whole idea that the government has to do everything for us, grow beyond it's Constitutional restrictions for the greater good, and protect the "national interest" everywhere in the world. We're bankrupt and heading toward some dark times because of this thinking. WWIII is probably going to be fought in Africa against the Chinese by proxy, for example. That's my prediction and I'm sticking to it.

 

[Makalakumu]

Here's a real example of what I mean when I say that Americans need to rediscover what it means to be American.

The TSA is violating everyone's rights anytime they search someone without any reason at all. The organization itself is unconstitutional.

Most Americans feel like Seasoned. When it comes to the TSA. Just take it and sacrifice your freedoms for the greater good of increased security.

Aside from being fondled by TSA, and no matter how stupid they are, and no matter where they are on the pay scale, for that small window of time, you are in their jurisdiction, and they are in charge.

Many Americans who have not spoken out against the TSA have spoken the following words.

I, (NAME), do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic; that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same; and that I will obey the orders of the President of the United States and the orders of the officers appointed over me, according to regulations and the Uniform Code of Military Justice. So help me God.

When pressed on the Unconstitutional treatment of citizens by the TSA, they fall back to the words of the oath, but not the spirit.

I have no problem here. You are preaching to the choir. I was in the military serving honorably, plus as I type I am under oath of office to support the Constitution of the United States of America.

When citizens can reconcile these positions and realize that the Constitution really is the law of the land and act accordingly, then we have overcome the propaganda. Right now, many citizens have two contradictory positions in their minds at the same time. We need to get this straight or we're going to lose our liberty.

 

[elder999]

It's not unconstitutional, John. You don't have to fly, and you don't have a right to fly-you're engaged in commerce, participating in a business transaction, and the search is part of that transaction. There are signs warning that your subject to search when you enter-you're engaged in a business contract that requires you be searched. It's no different than if you drive onto a government installation:

,

I mean, I live in a town where you are subject to warrantless search.

If you don't want to be searched, don't go to Los Alamos. Or the airport.

Doesn't mean you have to like it, or feel powerless. We're flying to Vegas this week-I'm going to wear my kilt, properly, pass on the scan and elect for the "pat down/fondling,"and scar someone for life. :lfao:

 

[granfire]

We're flying to Vegas this week-I'm going to wear my kilt, properly, pass on the scan and elect for the "pat down/fondling,"and scar someone for life. :lfao:

or make their life....

 

[elder999]

or make their life....

Maybe their day, anyway,. :wink:

 

[Makalakumu]

Can you choose an airline where passengers aren't subject to search by the TSA?

Jeff, by extension, your argument could be applied to anywhere people choose to go. So, when the TSA shows up at sporting events, concerts, shopping malls, schools, random places on the highway, etc, its perfectly fine?

That's coming, BTW.

Obviously, this isn't Constitutional and as much as I love the kilt idea, it doesn't strike the root of the problem...so to speak.

Sent from my Eris using Tapatalk

 

[Bob Hubbard]

Can you choose an airline where passengers aren't subject to search by the TSA?

Yup. Fly on a private charter from any of thousands of small airports. No TSA, no screening, no xray, no pat downs, nada.
Just you and your private plane.

http://www.blyon.com/how-to-fly-without-airport-security/

And you can join a growing number of 'plane coops'. How they work varies, but the short version is, monthly fee, fly without molestation.

 

[elder999]

Can you choose an airline where passengers aren't subject to search by the TSA?

If Rita-that's the wife-weren't going to NTS on business, and this trip were strictly pleasure, like it is for me, we'd be flying up there ourselves, out of Los ohmigod! Alamos airport.

I just love taking off from here, but I'll let Rita land....:lfao: (What you can't see, in addition to the landing strip being on a 600 foot high mesa with cliffs on both sides and high crosswinds, is the dense neighborhood just the width of a street away from the end of the strip)

Since she's on Lab travel, we're flying commercial, out of Albuquerque.......I like to drive to Vegas, too-did it in just a scoche under eight hours, about 12 years ago....

Jeff, by extension, your argument could be applied to anywhere people choose to go. So, when the TSA shows up at sporting events, concerts, shopping malls, schools, random places on the highway, etc, its perfectly fine?

That's coming, BTW.

Obviously, this isn't Constitutional and as much as I love the kilt idea, it doesn't strike the root of the problem...so to speak.

It's Constitutional until they're screening you to enter the park, library, state run free museum, or anywhere else that commerce isn't conducted and free passage is implied, otherwise, all bets are off: if a Broadway theater wanted to contract the TSA to conduct screenings, and they did so, there wouldn't be anything you could do about it except choose not to see that damn show. Ditto the trains, buses, subways, post-offices, malls, ferries, cruise ships, and a few other things I can think of, like toll roads.

I know it's coming. I've known it for years. A bunch of you-people on this very board and others-insisted I was nuts for saying as much 10 years ago.

Sucks to be right, sometimes, but there it is, and if you think a cadre of government attorneys haven't already written a room full of briefs and white papers addressing how to prove the Constitutionality of all this, you should probably dress like Jesse used to, just for camouflage.

And so the rest of us know that you're nuts. :lfao:

 

[Makalakumu]

If airlines and airports were hiring companies to do TSA type of screening, then I would agree, that is perfectly Constitutional. In this case, the Federal Government is mandating this kind of screening. I've heard of some airports trying to kick the TSA out, but I don't know if it's been successful. Regardless, this isn't Constitutional. It's not the Federal Government's responsibility and it violates our rights when they do it.

A private coop for air travel sounds interesting, but I wouldn't say that it's any great step toward liberty. It's more like a loophole in the tightening control grid.

Jeff, it's not a foregone conclusion that everything will be locked down into a police state, IMO. People are waking up. I was down at an Occupy event a couple of weeks ago and you wouldn't believe how many people are receptive to the idea of making a freer society. You can't just throw your energy into the ballot box though. You have to get out and do something about it.

 

[ballen0351]

If airlines and airports were hiring companies to do TSA type of screening, then I would agree, that is perfectly Constitutional. In this case, the Federal Government is mandating this kind of screening. I've heard of some airports trying to kick the TSA out, but I don't know if it's been successful. Regardless, this isn't Constitutional. It's not the Federal Government's responsibility and it violates our rights when they do it.

A private coop for air travel sounds interesting, but I wouldn't say that it's any great step toward liberty. It's more like a loophole in the tightening control grid.

Jeff, it's not a foregone conclusion that everything will be locked down into a police state, IMO. People are waking up. I was down at an Occupy event a couple of weeks ago and you wouldn't believe how many people are receptive to the idea of making a freer society. You can't just throw your energy into the ballot box though. You have to get out and do something about it.

Its not Unconstitutional your giving consent to be searched, or screened, or patted down. Ive never had a problem traveling and ive never seen any issues.

And it kinda makes me laugh at the suggestion of profiling instead of security check points. I see the ACLU chomping at the bit for that one. Thats the difference between the US and Israel. They dont have lawyers specifically trained in making a "Victim class" and courts that make stupid rulings like we have here.

 

[Makalakumu]

Its not Unconstitutional your giving consent to be searched, or screened, or patted down.

With this kind of thinking, your Constitutional Rights will disappear. The government does not have the right to search you without probable cause.

 

[Bob Hubbard]

The Ninth Circuit Court of Appeals ruled (.pdf) that travelers who walk through the airport metal detector implicitly consent to a search of their persons and bags, and they can't revoke that consent once the process has started.
The ruling moves domestic security policy closer to the rules that govern international border crossings, according to travel expert Edward Hasbrouck.
"Once you have attempted to cross the border, you are committed to a search of your person, up to and including sequestering you in a room for 72 hours while they examine your (feces) for bags of heroin. This case seems to be applying more and more a similar argument."

http://www.wired.com/science/discoveries/news/2006/03/70450

 

[jks9199]

Its not Unconstitutional your giving consent to be searched, or screened, or patted down. Ive never had a problem traveling and ive never seen any issues.

And it kinda makes me laugh at the suggestion of profiling instead of security check points. I see the ACLU chomping at the bit for that one. Thats the difference between the US and Israel. They dont have lawyers specifically trained in making a "Victim class" and courts that make stupid rulings like we have here.

There's also a little matter of scale. I used to count among my acquaintances the (now retired) chief of police at a major international airport here in the USA. He was hugely impressed with the Israeli security folks and their security system. But he also said it wouldn't be possible to implement beyond specific airlines. He had more air traffic in a single day than something like an entire month or more for the entire Israeli air travel system. And that was at a single (if huge) airport... The Israeli security model is fantastic -- and some facets should definitely be used -- but we can't simply lift it wholesale.

There's something else to consider: The people in Israel buy into the system. They report things that people here ignore. The idea of a bag being left unattended in a shopping center is incomprehensible to many people in the Middle East (and even in a large part of Europe).

 

[jks9199]

With this kind of thinking, your Constitutional Rights will disappear. The government does not have the right to search you without probable cause.

Actually, that's not what the Bill of Rights says. The 4th Amendment prohibits UNREASONABLE search and seizure without a warrant. It reads:
The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized.


There are several exceptions, and many searches that have been found to be reasonable, and therefore permissible. In the case of the searches at the airport and in travel, there is a legitimate government interest served, and which cannot be effectively served in a less intrusive manner. They are also forms of consent searches: you are not compelled by government action to fly.

I'm not a blanket supporter of the TSA; actually I think they're well meaning but idiots by and large. The TSA is a nightmare, always responding 2 crises back, and almost capriciously. What the hell is served by making people take their shoes off? Backscatter X-ray that doesn't store pictures except when it does... and who knows about the radiation dose. Not to mention the millions of shipping containers that enter the country unsearched every day... Not only that, but nearly all the emphasis has been on air travel. Got news... Anybody with some education in the field expects that the next huge terrorist act won't be a plane. Maybe a train. Maybe a bus. But probably not a plane -- and if it is a plane, almost certainly not a hijacking. Passengers aren't going to sit still for them anymore. The shoe bomber, the underwear bomber? Yeah... right. Real scary attacks.

 

[ballen0351]

With this kind of thinking, your Constitutional Rights will disappear. The government does not have the right to search you without probable cause.

Its simple really if TSA bothers you and you dont want to be searched charter your own plane, drive to Canada or mexico and get on a plane or dont fly. When you buy your plane ticket and step VOLUNTARILY into the security check point you have waived your right to search and have consented. No different then on a traffic stop if you consent to have your vehicle searched by the police.Im not saying everthing TSA does is right but there has not been an effective alternative brought up yet. Profiling is not effective for this country. The US is too big and too diverse to try it. We have too Many Lawyers

 

[Makalakumu]

http://www.wired.com/science/discoveries/news/2006/03/70450

Bad ruling. If they can say this about the airports, they can say this about anywhere people choose to go. There effectively is no 4th Amendment if this is allowed to stand.

The key word is IF. The people don't have to accept it and can change it with proper political action.

 

[Makalakumu]

Actually, that's not what the Bill of Rights says. The 4th Amendment prohibits UNREASONABLE search and seizure without a warrant. It reads:
The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized.


There are several exceptions, and many searches that have been found to be reasonable, and therefore permissible. In the case of the searches at the airport and in travel, there is a legitimate government interest served, and which cannot be effectively served in a less intrusive manner. They are also forms of consent searches: you are not compelled by government action to fly.

I'm not a blanket supporter of the TSA; actually I think they're well meaning but idiots by and large. The TSA is a nightmare, always responding 2 crises back, and almost capriciously. What the hell is served by making people take their shoes off? Backscatter X-ray that doesn't store pictures except when it does... and who knows about the radiation dose. Not to mention the millions of shipping containers that enter the country unsearched every day... Not only that, but nearly all the emphasis has been on air travel. Got news... Anybody with some education in the field expects that the next huge terrorist act won't be a plane. Maybe a train. Maybe a bus. But probably not a plane -- and if it is a plane, almost certainly not a hijacking. Passengers aren't going to sit still for them anymore. The shoe bomber, the underwear bomber? Yeah... right. Real scary attacks.

Are the TSA searches reasonable?