Jane Doe Rape Kits

[MJS]

I came across this article. I thought it was pretty interesting, however, it did make me question a few things.

ELKTON, Md. - Starting next year across the country, rape victims too afraid or too ashamed to go to police can undergo an emergency-room forensic rape exam, and the evidence gathered will be kept on file in a sealed envelope in case they decide to press charges.
The new federal requirement that states pay for "Jane Doe rape kits" is aimed at removing one of the biggest obstacles to prosecuting rape cases: Some women are so traumatized they don't come forward until it is too late to collect hair, semen or other samples.

What concerns me is when I saw this:

Emergency rooms typically use a "rape kit" to collect evidence for use by police and prosecutors. It consists of microscope slides, boxes and plastic bags for storing skin, hair, blood, saliva or semen gathered by a specially trained nurse. The victim's injuries are also photographed.

Not sure how much detail is required for someone who may not know what they're doing, to collect the evidence properly. I suppose if the victim does not want to go to the hospital right away, this is better than nothing. At least some evidence could hopefully be collected properly, and aid in the investigation to the crime.

It'll be interesting to see how this works out.

Thoughts?

 

[terryl965]

I guess if they have the proper training and can do the police job for them why not. I see this going bad over the next couple of years.

 

[theletch1]

At least two of our local ERs have what they call "forensic nurses" who are trained to use the PERK in situations like this. Sad that it's needed in a supposed civilized society.

 

[MJS]

I guess if they have the proper training and can do the police job for them why not. I see this going bad over the next couple of years.

This was my concern, regarding the proper training. Personally, and I can imagine a sexual assault is certainly a very traumatic experience, but I'd rather see the victim go to the ER, have the test done properly and get a police report filed ASAP.

 

[theletch1]

This was my concern, regarding the proper training. Personally, and I can imagine a sexual assault is certainly a very traumatic experience, but I'd rather see the victim go to the ER, have the test done properly and get a police report filed ASAP.

As I understand it there will be an officer on scene at the hospital to take an initial report. The PERK will be administered by a trained hospital personel for recovery of DNA evidence. It's, what, 48 hours for the window to collect good DNA? If you're ever giving a women's self defense seminar (or just giving advice to a friend) always stress to them the need to go directly to the ER before they change clothes or shower. I like the idea of keeping the evidence on hand even if they decide not to press charges at that time. Too many women believe the myth that they somehow were asking to get raped because of the way they were dressed or something they were doing and won't press charges. Having the evidence stored could be a good start on stopping a serial rapist.

 

[tellner]

It's a simple procedure that requires a lot less training than most of what an ER nurse has to do. A nurse is used to dealing with emotionally distraught people in a reassuring nonjudgmental fashion. Her - yes, there are male nurses; I was one in another life - training and experience is in doing these sorts of intimate things in a sensitive and reassuring fashion. The social and emotional context is there to make it easier and less traumatic. We're used to the idea of nurses poking, prodding, applying, inserting, bedpanning and so on. That's leaving aside the wide variety of very complex tasks she or he does routinely.

A police officer's training is mostly in taking control, being the authority, questioning people and arresting them. Most people are at least a little afraid of the police. A guy or gal with a badge, a gun, a club, gas and an electronic shock box is not who you want combing your hair and taking swabs of your tender parts at a time like that. He or she may be sympathetic and empathetic, but that's not the way it's going to be seen at a time like that. And the sort of professionalism that is demanded by the job is different than that of a health care professional.

I bet that where nurses do the rape kit you'll get a much higher rate of cooperation on the part of the victim. It also helps separate the parts of the process. If someone, especially a man, is sternly asking "Are you sure? Can you describe him? Were you forced?" it's going to be difficult to switch gears and say "And now we'll need to swab this and prod that." Better to have another person, dressed in reassuring white or scrubs ask "While we're cleaning you up can I get a few samples for the lab? The police might need them later."

 

[punisher73]

I'm not sure what the issue is, it sounds like the same process as it is done now, except all of the items are kept instead of being sent in and the kit only has a number to keep the victim anonymous.

My exwife was trained as a Sexual Assault Nurse Examiner (SANE) and they do the interview and prepare the statement to go along with the police report (police will still interview as well). They collect the samples, but also check for micro-tears, etc in the vaginal/rectal area and have specific training for that.

They also will be called upon in trial to testify to the injuries and how they could have occurred, also how the evidence was collected. A big part of the training is how to keep chain of custody for the evidence and how to collect it to meet court rules of evidence so it is admissable.

 

[shesulsa]

I'd be concerned about false reports of rape. But that's just one thing.

 

[Bodhisattva]

I came across this article. I thought it was pretty interesting, however, it did make me question a few things.



What concerns me is when I saw this:



Not sure how much detail is required for someone who may not know what they're doing, to collect the evidence properly. I suppose if the victim does not want to go to the hospital right away, this is better than nothing. At least some evidence could hopefully be collected properly, and aid in the investigation to the crime.

It'll be interesting to see how this works out.

Thoughts?

Weirdest thread title I've ever seen, I think...

 

[CoryKS]

I'd be concerned about false reports of rape. But that's just one thing.

Me too. Seems like all they could determine would be that the person who has the kit had access to someone else's fluids at some point in the past. What are the odds that someone is going to use one of these as an "in case the sob cheats on me, break glass" kit?

 

[Empty Hands]

What are the odds that someone is going to use one of these as an "in case the sob cheats on me, break glass" kit?

Considering that they are collected in an ER and not kept by the person making the allegation, I would guess no better odds than faking a rape as it stands now.

 

[CoryKS]

Considering that they are collected in an ER and not kept by the person making the allegation, I would guess no better odds than faking a rape as it stands now.

That makes more sense, thanks. I understood it to be a home version.

 

[punisher73]

That makes more sense, thanks. I understood it to be a home version.

When I first read some of the replies that is what I thought as well, then when I read the article I couldn't understand really what the fuss was about. It is being collected just as before, by a trained nurse in an ER.

If it was a home kit, there is no way it would be admissible as there would be no chain of evidence to prove how/where it came from.

 

[MJS]

As I understand it there will be an officer on scene at the hospital to take an initial report. The PERK will be administered by a trained hospital personel for recovery of DNA evidence. It's, what, 48 hours for the window to collect good DNA? If you're ever giving a women's self defense seminar (or just giving advice to a friend) always stress to them the need to go directly to the ER before they change clothes or shower. I like the idea of keeping the evidence on hand even if they decide not to press charges at that time. Too many women believe the myth that they somehow were asking to get raped because of the way they were dressed or something they were doing and won't press charges. Having the evidence stored could be a good start on stopping a serial rapist.

Yes, an officer would be called if the party goes to the ER. I'm just questioning the practice of basically a do-it-yourself kit, where the person may not know what they're doing. I think the good intentions are there, but I feel that its better to have the test/exam done by a professional. It may also hold more weight in court if the suspect is caught. I can just hear the bad guys lawyer now, claiming that the victim didn't know what she was doing when she took the samples, evidence was contaminated, etc. and next thing you know, the bad guy goes free.

 

[Empty Hands]

I'm just questioning the practice of basically a do-it-yourself kit, where the person may not know what they're doing.

From the article: "What makes a Jane Doe rape kit different is that it is sealed with only a number on the outside of the envelope to identify the victim. Police do not open the envelope unless the victim decides to press charges."

Thus, the only difference with these kits is the means of identification. They are collected no differently then they are now, and the victim would not be the one doing the collecting.

 

[MJS]

From the article: "What makes a Jane Doe rape kit different is that it is sealed with only a number on the outside of the envelope to identify the victim. Police do not open the envelope unless the victim decides to press charges."

Thus, the only difference with these kits is the means of identification. They are collected no differently then they are now, and the victim would not be the one doing the collecting.

Wow...why the hell was I thinking this was done by the victim? See what happens when you don't read closely. Well, now that we got that out of the way......you'd think that the hospital would be required to contact the police. I mean, if I went to the ER with a gunshot, you can bet the cops would be called. Like I said, I understand this is a traumatic thing, but its still a crime.