ITF and North Korea's United Front Department

[mastercole]

Really? Now you're going to try to pretend that anybody who disagrees or questions you isn't a patriot?:BSmeter:

You said that, not me. I just stated what I will do, and, to each his own, I have no opinion about what side one wants to take, or if they consider themselves to be a patriot, or not. That might be another thread. Maybe we could call it "Taekwondo Patriots and Martyrs"

 

[puunui]

That's a different thread, coming soon.

It's better to concentrate on those who need and want our help. For those who do not need or want our help, we shouldn't waste their time or ours. Just let them be who they are. They may try to come around later, when their teacher passes, or they leave their school, but usually by then it's too late.

 

[ralphmcpherson]

That's a different thread, coming soon.

I swear if you and your side kick spent as much time training as you do trying to dis-credit anything non kukkiwon you could amaze yourselves at what you could achieve. Its really becoming quite tedious. You two could turn a thread about kermit the frog into a thread about the advantages of kukkiwon certification. I used to at least believe your sidekick was quite knowledgable about all things martial arts, but after reading the thread in the general section where chris parker completely dismantled him, Ive realised he is just full of big words and half truths twisted into what he calls facts, and as soon as he comes up against someone who knows what they're talking about, he very quickly gets shown up. You only make yourself seem silly by constantly siding with him. Although it is entertaining to read it all

 

[mastercole]

It's better to concentrate on those who need and want our help. For those who do not need or want our help, we shouldn't waste their time or ours. Just let them be who they are. They may try to come around later, when their teacher passes, or they leave their school, but usually by then it's too late.

Good point.

 

[mastercole]

I swear if you and your side kick spent as much time training as you do trying to dis-credit anything non kukkiwon you could amaze yourselves at what you could achieve. Its really becoming quite tedious. You two could turn a thread about kermit the frog into a thread about the advantages of kukkiwon certification. I used to at least believe your sidekick was quite knowledgable about all things martial arts, but after reading the thread in the general section where chris parker completely dismantled him, Ive realised he is just full of big words and half truths twisted into what he calls facts, and as soon as he comes up against someone who knows what they're talking about, he very quickly gets shown up. You only make yourself seem silly by constantly siding with him. Although it is entertaining to read it all

You are way off subject here, you might want to go back and check the name of this thread: ITF and North Korea's United Front Department

If you don't like the subject, why bother reading it.

 

[ralphmcpherson]

It's better to concentrate on those who need and want our help. For those who do not need or want our help, we shouldn't waste their time or ours. Just let them be who they are. They may try to come around later, when their teacher passes, or they leave their school, but usually by then it's too late.

Or maybe you'll come round to our way of thinking oh great one. Its funny how you just constantly assume your opinions are 'right' and the rest just havent realised we are wrong yet. The funniest part is that you lost a lot of credibility there for a while, disapeared, and then re-apeared with a sidekick to follow you from thread to thread to try and add some credibility to opinions. Classic stuff, great entertainment.

 

[puunui]

Only a lawyer would claim that a murder is an honest person, and do it with a straight face.

It's not lawyers who are saying this, it's the law. If you choose to disregard these laws, then that is your perogative. And I did not say that a murderer is an honest person, I said that you cannot use evidence of a murder to show that someone is a liar. If you have a conviction for check fraud, or forgery or something along those lines, then you can use that check fraud or forgery conviction to show untruthfulness, maybe. But not murder. I don't care what courtroom you are in, no judge is going to allow evidence of a murder to show that the murderer was lying.

Oh, and a corporation is not a person, even though states routinely "execute" corporations all the time. Try not submitting your annual filing for a number of years for example, and a state may or will involuntarily dissolve a corporation.

 

[mastercole]

Or maybe you'll come round to our way of thinking oh great one. Its funny how you just constantly assume your opinions are 'right' and the rest just havent realised we are wrong yet. The funniest part is that you lost a lot of credibility there for a while, disapeared, and then re-apeared with a sidekick to follow you from thread to thread to try and add some credibility to opinions. Classic stuff, great entertainment.

I don't know Ralph, you might be getting into this grey area; Attitude - Excessive Rudeness or Disrespect

Let's keep on subject, thank you.

 

[Bob Hubbard]

What is a supporting member by the way?

http://www.martialtalk.com/premiummembership.shtml

 

[ralphmcpherson]

I don't know Ralph, you might be getting into this grey area; Attitude - Excessive Rudeness or Disrespect

Let's keep on subject, thank you.

Maybe, but its all true. Hang on, just re read my post, its not rude.

 

[Bob Hubbard]

First of all, who would bring you to court over this? North Korea? GM CHOI Jung Hwa?

Secondly, exactly what have I done that would cause you legal headaches? All I did was post a link that you may wish to read. How does that expose you, criminally, civilly or otherwise? Have you had to hire an attorney and/or had to spend money on legal headaches because of me? If so, in what way?

Who? Dunno. Some concerns were brought to my attention, I said I'd investigate and found some cause for concern. Ultimately I've nothing to worry about thanks to something President Clinton signed into law, however reminding a judge of that can still be expensive. Discussions such as this are sometimes referred to my attorney for review to ensure -my- *** is covered. In the event someone were to issue a take-down notice, or file other documents, those too are run by them for review. I've been doing this for 11 years...you get a feel for things after a while.

Have -you- personally cost me money? Off the top of my head, probably not. I'll have to refer back to my notes and member records to check that.
My goal is to make sure that 1-my *** is covered, 2-MT's is also covered, and 3 where possible yours too. Dealing with that takes time, costs me lost revenue from projects I have to put on hold, time away from my family, and so on. I receive about 20 PITA notices a year on average, usually concerning someone who's been roasted on here by a member, sent by the roastee or a representative of theirs. They are rarely 'fun' discussions.

 

[puunui]

You are way off subject here, you might want to go back and check the name of this thread: ITF and North Korea's United Front Department

If you don't like the subject, why bother reading it.

Funny but I don't think you or I ever mentioned the word "kukkiwon" in this thread.

 

[mastercole]

Funny but I don't think you or I ever mentioned the word "kukkiwon" in this thread.

Not that I recall. My understanding is that this is a thread about the ITF and North Korea's United Front Department

 

[ralphmcpherson]

Funny but I don't think you or I ever mentioned the word "kukkiwon" in this thread.

No, you were too busy trying to dis-credit the kukkiwon's opposition.

 

[mastercole]

No, you were too busy trying to dis-credit the kukkiwon's opposition.

No, I was pointin out how all these sources and people were dis-crediting North Korea's CHOI Hong Hi and his ITF

House Committee on International Relations: Subcommittee on Asia and the Pacific and
the Subcommittee on Africa, Global Human Rights and International Operations
KANG Min Chul, North Korea terrorist agent, murderer and Taekwon-do master
KIM Hyun Lee, North Korean terrorist agent, murderer and Taekwon-do master
Deutsche Presse-Agentur and about 10 other top media outlets
And last, but not least, CHOI Hong Hi’s own son, CHOI Jung Hwa himself

By the way, did you ever figure out where all the narrow stances are in Palgwe Poomsae, or do you still need help on that?

 

[ralphmcpherson]

No, I was pointin out how all these sources and people were dis-crediting North Korea's CHOI Hong Hi and his ITF

House Committee on International Relations: Subcommittee on Asia and the Pacific and
the Subcommittee on Africa, Global Human Rights and International Operations
KANG Min Chul, North Korea terrorist agent, murderer and Taekwon-do master
KIM Hyun Lee, North Korean terrorist agent, murderer and Taekwon-do master
Deutsche Presse-Agentur and about 10 other top media outlets
And last, but not least, CHOI Hong Hi’s own son, CHOI Jung Hwa himself

By the way, did you ever figure out where all the narrow stances are in Palgwe Poomsae, or do you still need help on that?

Yeah, all sorted. Got my kukkiwon mate to do all the taegeks at my place the other night. There were heaps of short stances, looks strange when you're used to only seeing palgwes, with long, deep (shotokan looking) stances. Although I showed him the palgwes and he said they look 'strange'. Still cant find the short stance in palgwe 5, but I should be seeing my korean neighbour tonight and I will ask him to t ranslate 'hakdari-seogi' as you said if I find that, I will find the part you were talking about.

 

[Tez3]

£275 for a book called 'The Terrorist List' with a bunch of names in it anyone can get off the internet by no-one I've heard of? You're having a Steffi Graf mate.


No one is denying what is reported by the BBC among others happened, but making accusations against the whole organisation which has branches in many countries is asking to be sued to be honest. I'm sure ITF here know about the incidents but as they weren't involved and you are saying that ITF is a terrorist organisation which is not just libel but defamation so you could land Bob in some serious money losing talks. Internet libel cases are becoming more common these days, because of the international nature of the internet, it may get twice as confusing and expensive. There's been a case recently on a UK martial arts forum where lawyers were involved, it got costly and quite nasty. The owners of the site are a Saudi Arabian company who own an MMA promotion and because the forum is international what was posted was seen in many countries. it got sorted without going to any courts but still a very expensive business though the lawyers would be happy at their fees.

 

[Tez3]

No, I was pointin out how all these sources and people were dis-crediting North Korea's CHOI Hong Hi and his ITF

House Committee on International Relations: Subcommittee on Asia and the Pacific and
the Subcommittee on Africa, Global Human Rights and International Operations
KANG Min Chul, North Korea terrorist agent, murderer and Taekwon-do master
KIM Hyun Lee, North Korean terrorist agent, murderer and Taekwon-do master
Deutsche Presse-Agentur and about 10 other top media outlets
And last, but not least, CHOI Hong Hi’s own son, CHOI Jung Hwa himself

By the way, did you ever figure out where all the narrow stances are in Palgwe Poomsae, or do you still need help on that?

You need to post links to these so people can read them. As you have made allegations againt the ITF organisation as a whole and you have non Americans here it means little I'm afraid for you to just say it's there, we need to see it.

 

[Earl Weiss]

Some questions though. Why is the USTF and yourself no longer a part of any ITF? Didn't General Choi specifically appoint Mr. CHANG Ung of North Korea to be the next ITF President? i understand that the appointment by General Choi may have violated the ITF bylaws, but isn't there an argument that General Choi was the ITF, and that anything he wished, was how it went?

When the NK group attempted a coup in NK following the memorial service magicaly transforming it into a "Special Congress" appointing Chang Ung President which effectively caused a split in the ITF, some USTF people who were Federal government mployees were questioned as to their association with this NK group and would have to resign from the USTF because of the mess. Instead Sr. GM Sereff withdrew the USTF as a National governing body of the ITF. I was allowed to continue to work with the ITF (Vienna / original core group) so long as I continued to fulfill all USTF requirements. This contiunued for 8 years. Had a great relationship with the Senior VP who became interim president following General Choi's death as well as the first President who got killed in the Haiti earthquake. In 2009 the new administration made a change to the By Laws which (In my opinion imprpoerly expanded the new ITF constitution which I helped write) to disqualify from membership anyone who was a member of a National TKD organization unaffiliated to the ITF . They then refused to accept my annual instructor dues which I had paid every year since 1990, and refused to process Dan Applications. I was told I would have to choose between the them and the USTF . I did.

As far as who General Choi appointed, my experience / viuew is this.
At dinner in 2001 he was lobbying for his son. (Long story I won't get into. In 2002 he was instrumental in designating Russell McLellan a Canadian with Political experience as Senior VP who would take over if he died. Never heard mention of Chang Ung. There was one internet report, now apparently unavailable who recounted the story of Gneral Choi on his deathbed and stated he spoke in a low voice and only the person next to him a NK person could hear him and repeated what he said. That person believed the NK person lied. Even if he said it I picture an elderly gravely ill man at death's door, possibly medicated saaying somethin in NK where he hoped to be buried with honors. This is news from NKJ which magicaly transformed a memorial service and said the election was unanimous (Aren't all elections in NK) where several people vois\ced objections to the election.

Was General Chioi the ITF. Yes. Did what he say go? Pretty much. I viewed it like being in your Father;s business. It's his business. As long as he's around it's his business. You accept his decisions, or try to convince him to change. If your not happy you can always leave.

But, when he's no longer around you need to run it how you feel best.

There were some who espoused a belief which I think, (As one ITF high rank put it) that based upon some eastern philosophies you would follow wishes even after death. I am not one of those.

 

[Earl Weiss]

How credible is the proceedings from a US Congressional Hearing?

?

I don't know: Check out Senator Joe McCarthy, The Hollywood Blacklist, Gulf of Tonkin resolution and lets not forget all the WMDs we found in Iraq.