ITF and North Korea's United Front Department

[Earl Weiss]

Obviously old stuff from 2008. One needs to keep in mind that CJH's main platform to head the ITF was to save it from NK control. Everything he says needs to be viewed with that in mind. Initialy he was wildly succesful using that platform, but many of hsi followers have left him.

Now to address some of the other points :


1. >>>According to Choi, the United Front Department funded ITF headquarters and directed its activities against South Korea. In addition to some $1.2 million spent to finance world taekwondo competitions, about $300,000 in operational funds was given to the federation every year, Choi said.<<<

Well, this has gone on before. First ITF members were accused of monetarily supporting NK. When it becamne clear the numbers and monies from members after paying expenses would be a pittance when viewed on the level of national finances it then changed to NK moetarily supporting the ITF . I am sure it did just like other meme\ber countries did. I have to say that the numbers quoted above seem astronomical given the si\ze of the organization, and since it wold be on top of funds generated by all the countries.


2.>>>&#8220;I was involved in training the masters in 1981 and 1982, but since then, the IFT ruled that after training, the masters were to be dispatched around the world,&#8221; Choi said. &#8220;I have no idea how many North Korean agents were sent overseas as taekwondo masters.&#8221;<<<

It is interesting here to have him admit he has no idea how many were sent.


3.>>According to Choi, North Korea established pro-North, anti-South organizations around the world with the taekwondo masters that it has dispatched through the ITF. Such organizations were launched in Germany, Canada, the United States and other countries, he said.<<

Well, I can certainly state that if they were in the USA they were well hidden. (Really easy to blend in Don't you think the US government would notice. A while ago I tried to solicit input from everyone on the net about NK instructors. Seems the there were a couple in the Czech Republic. A couple in China near the NK border, maybe one or two in some former eastern Block countries and some guy in Togo had a photo of one hanging on the wall. I find this hard to get excited about. If anyone anywhere has more specific information I would be glad to hear it.



4. >>>Six months after his father&#8217;s announcement, the North kicked Choi out of the organization, dismissing him from his post.<<<

This is blatently false. The ITF had a special congress attended from delegates from dozens of countries. At this congress (Around January 2002) an earlier vote that asaid he would take over 2 years following the 2001 congress in Italy was reversed. AT\t that point he was not kicked out of the organizatiuon. Following the vote he adjourned to a hotel room with a group of his supporters and declared that he was forming his own ITF with himself as president. Almost 2 months Months later (2/26/02 I have the letter), due to that action the ITF expelled him.

 

[puunui]

Obviously old stuff from 2008. One needs to keep in mind that CJH's main platform to head the ITF was to save it from NK control. Everything he says needs to be viewed with that in mind. Initialy he was wildly succesful using that platform, but many of hsi followers have left him.

Some questions though. Why is the USTF and yourself no longer a part of any ITF? Didn't General Choi specifically appoint Mr. CHANG Ung of North Korea to be the next ITF President? i understand that the appointment by General Choi may have violated the ITF bylaws, but isn't there an argument that General Choi was the ITF, and that anything he wished, was how it went?

 

[mastercole]

Not my job to validate your data. That's yours. If you can't provide it, I'm inclined to toss the threads/posts and declare the subject off-topic to save me some headaches later.

As to contacting them...I somehow get the idea that the result of me walking in and saying "Hey, this guy on my forum posted a nasty article about some dead Korean guy, and even said I could find the proof in a book written by another guy, plus on some blogs. Is this true?" that the end result would be about the same as when I watch Carlin. Laughter and an 'are you serious' look.

Since this is something you folks know a lot more than I, and care about it a lot more than I, finding that valid verification should be easy. If it's not posted by midnight NY time today, threads will be locked and the topic off-limits.

Alternately, I'll take $100,000 cash, you can have the site and post whatever you want.

OK,


These are credible journalistic sources

BBC
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/7605935.stm

Reuters News Agency
http://www.reuters.com/article/2008/09/09/us-taekwondo-korea-idUSSEO27677920080909

USA Today
http://www.usatoday.com/news/world/2008-09-08-3900728492_x.htm

People Magazine
http://www.people.com/people/archive/article/0,,20106989,00.html

Korea Joongahn Daily
http://koreajoongangdaily.joinsmsn.com/news/article/article.aspx?aid=2894692

The Citizen, Ottowa Canada
http://news.google.com/newspapers?n...NEyAAAAIBAJ&sjid=O-8FAAAAIBAJ&pg=1069,2964393

From the USA CONGRESSIONAL HEARING on this very subject

&#8220;North Korean spy camp and given indoctrination lectures together with
physical training, including Judo, Taekwondo, Karate&#8221;

Full proceedings http://democrats.foreignaffairs.house.gov/archives/109/shi042706.pdf

Deutsche Presse-Agentur

&#8220;Austria&#8217;s intelligence service has identified four North Korean intelligence agencies operating on its territory, according to annual Interior Ministry reports. The Embassy, trading firms, and Taekwon-Do clubs have been suspected of providing cover for spies.&#8221;

Asia Times Online

Taekwon-do expert KANG Min Chol, who murdered South Korean's and Burmese nationals in a terrorist bomb attack in Burma (different bomb attack) taught Korean martial arts Taekwon-do to his jailers!

http://www.atimes.com/atimes/Korea/MI13Dg01.html

 

[mastercole]

Another credible source

The Associated Press

HYUNG-JIN KIM, Associated Press Writer
Mon Sep 8

SEOUL, South Korea - A taekwondo master who has acknowledged taking
part in a failed plot to assassinate a former South Korean president
at the direction of North Korea returned home to the South on Monday
after decades overseas.

Choi Jung-hwa, however, was expected to be cleared of most of the
allegations against him because he voluntarily returned and the statue
of limitations on many of them have expired, said senior prosecutor Oh
Se-in.

Choi hired two agents to shoot South Korean President Chun Doo-hwan
during a 1982 visit to Canada, according to Oh Chang-jin, an aide to
Choi. The plot, however, was detected and Choi went into hiding in
Eastern Europe and North Korea.

In 1991, he surrendered to Canadian authorities and was sentenced to
six years in prison, but was released after one year for good
behavior, Oh said.

"I was unintentionally involved" in the assassination attempt case,
Choi told a news conference Monday. "I think that's because of my
political naivety or spirit of adventure. I made such a mistake due to
this combination of factors."

Choi, 54, played a leading role in promoting taekwondo in the North
together with his father Choi Hong-hi, who founded the now pro-
Pyongyang, Vienna-based International Taekwondo Federation in 1966.

Choi's father, however, emigrated to Canada in 1972 following
squabbles with the South's staunchly anti-communist ruling military
regime. Choi followed two years later.

South Korea founded a new taekwondo association in 1973 — the World
Taekwondo Federation, or WTF — which is now recognized by the
International Olympic Committee as the sport's official body.

Choi's father died of a cancer in 2002 and Pyongyang named a North
Korean to head the ITF. An angry Choi established another taekwondo
body in Canada, claiming it was the sole legitimate ITF.

Oh said that Choi has recently accused North Korea of using taekwondo
experts as intelligence agents.

On-and-off talks on merging the WTP and the Vienna-based ITF have
taken place in recent years, but no substantial agreement was forged.

Taekwondo is a national sport in South Korea, where all soldiers must
train in the martial art.

The two Koreas fought the 1950-53 Korean War that ended in an
armistice, not a peace treaty, meaning the sides are still technically
in state of war.

Son of ITF Taekwondo Founder Returns to Seoul
Choi Jung-Hwa Had Been Pro-N. Korean in Canada
The Seoul Times

Mr. Choi Jung-Hwa, son of the legendary founder of Korea's martial art
Taekwondo will come to Seoul on Sept. 8, 2008, a South Korean
government source announced on Sept. 7, 2008.

The 54-year-old Choi has been living in Canada for the last 30 years
as his father Choi Hong-Hi ((崔泓熙,1918~2002) had been working as
the founder of International Taekwondo Federation (ITF), which had
been leaning toward North Korea in its activities.

ITF has been deviding Taekwondo through the world with the South Korea-
based World Taekwondo Federation (WTF).

The South Korean source said on the day that Mr. Choi was expected to
arrive in Seoul from Narita Airport in Tokyo, Japan in the morning of
Sept. 8, 2008.

He will be investigated by the South Korean intelligence agency on
suspicion of his espionage activities, according to the source.

The source was quoted as saying that Mr. Cho expressed his willingness
to revert to South Korea through the South Korean Embassy in Canada in
June of 2008, saying he wants to return to South Korea.

Mr. Choi, holder of Canadian citizenship, had been involved in pro-
North Korean activities after he and his father left South Korea in
1972. They defected to Canada amid serious feuds with then-South
Korean President Park Chung-Hee.

In a recent interview with a local magazine JoongAng Sunday in Tokyo,
Mr. Choi said "among the ITF Taekowndo masters were many North Koran
agents."

"They were trained by North Korea's Workers' Party and sent to foreign
countries for espionage activities," Choi was quoted as saying.

Mr. Choi also said that he was involved in the attempted assassination
of then-South Korean President Chun Do-Hwan in 1981 on the order of
North Korean government.

Mr. Choi allegedly fled to North Korea from Canada in July of 1981
when their plan was detected by Canadian police to assassinate South
Korean President Chun Doo-Hwan on his visit to Canada.

As a grand master himself, Mr. Choi Jung Hwa was born on the Korea's
southernmost island of Jeju. Mr. Choi started practicing Taekwondo at
the age of seven under the guidelines of his father, Gen. Choi, Hong-
Hi. Just like his father, he taught and popularized Taekwondo all over
the world. He is known to be the person who introduced and developed
Taekwondo in several European countries in particular.

Established in 1966 by Choi Hong-Hi, the legendary of founder of
Korean Taekwondo, ITF has been divided the world Taekwondo with South
Korean-based the World Taekwondo Federation (WTF).

The late Choi Hong-Hi, who founded Taekwondo in 1955, and served as a
military commander in South Korea. He also supported South Korean
President Park Chung-Hee when Park staged a military coup in 1961.

But Choi was discharged from the military against his own will amid a
feud with dictator Park Chung-Hee. Afterwards Choi served as South
Korean ambassador to Malaysia, but eventually he defected to Canada
amid a serious disagreement with then-President Park.

His ITF had been hugely powerful among the followers of Taekwondo
throughout the world with tens of thousands of followers.

But South Korean government found another Taekwondo organization,
World Taekwondo Federation (WTF) in 1966.

The two Taekwondo bodies have been dividing world's Tawkwondo members
up until now.

In his promotion of Taekwondo to the world the late Choi had been
supported by the late North Korean leader Kim Il-Sung.

When Mr. Choi died in 2002 the son of Kim Il-Sung, Kim Jong-Il
expressed deep sorrow by sending funeral flowers. He was buried in the
site for the patriots in Pyeongyang.

Mr. Choi even became an object for a movie in North Korea for his
heroic behavior in Taekwondo.

As native of Myeongcheon, North Korea's North Hamgyeong Province, Mr.
Choi had been visiting North Korean over 20 times in his life.

==================

Late Choi Hong Hi:
Founder of Taekwondo — (최홍희; 崔泓熙; Nov. 9 1918–15 June
2002), also known as General Choi, was a S. Korean army general and
martial artist who is a controversial figure in the history of the
Korean martial art of taekwondo. Choi is widely regarded as the
'Founder of Taekwondo'—most often by the International Taekwondo

N Korea 'hired taekwondo killers'

Choi Jung-hwa in Seoul

Choi Jung-hwa says he returned to Seoul to clarify past
misunderstandings

A master of the ancient martial art of taekwondo says North Korean
agents recruited him in a failed plot to kill a South Korean president.

South Korean-born Choi Jung-hwa said North Korean spies infiltrated a
global taekwondo body and ordered its members to kill Chun Doo-hwan in
the 1980s.

Mr Choi made the claim as he returned to Seoul after living abroad for
years.

He is unlikely to be punished over his alleged links to Pyongyang, a
South Korean prosecutor told AP news agency.

The senior prosecutor, Oh Se-in, was quoted as saying Mr Choi would be
cleared of most of the suspicions as the statute of limitations had
expired and he had chosen to return to South Korea voluntarily.

'Unintentionally involved'

Mr Choi has spent much of his life in Canada, home to a branch of the
International Taekwondo Federation (ITF), set up by his late father,
Choi Hong-hi in 1966.

Choi Hong-hi moved to Canada in the 1970s after a row with the South
Korean government of the time.

According to Choi Jung-hwa, North Korean agents infiltrated the
federation and instructed experts in the martial art - including
himself - in a plot to assassinate President Chun, who governed South
Korea for much of the 1980s.

"I was unintentionally involved," Choi Jung-hwa said on his return to
Seoul. "I think that's because of my political naivety or spirit of
adventure."

He told the Korea Times newspaper he had hired two agents to shoot
President Chun during a 1982 visit to Canada.

The plot was reportedly uncovered, forcing Choi Jung-hwa to flee to
eastern Europe and eventually to North Korea.

He returned to Canada in 1991 and was released after serving one year
of a six-year jail term, his aide told AP.

According to the JoongAng Ilbo newspaper, Choi Jung-hwa returned to
South Korea to clarify misunderstandings about his past.

"I have committed some wrongs whether it was my intention or not," the
papers quoted him as telling reporters. "I should pay for what I have
done."

Sporting rivalry

After the death of Mr Choi's father in 2002, a schism erupted in the
ITF, with rival camps based in Canada and Austria laying claim to his
legacy.

Choi Jung-hwa, who lead the Canada-based branch of the ITF, accused
Pyongyang of trying to take over the Vienna wing of the body.

The ITF is regarded with suspicion in South Korea, which follows rules
laid by an alternative authority for the sport, the World Taekwondo
Federation (WTF).

WTF-style taekwondo was adopted at the Sydney Olympics in 2000 as the
approved form of the sport.

Taekwondo is a national sport in South Korea and all the country's
soldiers are trained in the martial art.

Choi Jung-hwa's return to South Korea coincides with the 60th
anniversary of the foundation of North Korea, which remains officially at war with its southern neighbour.

 

[mastercole]

[h=3]For those who like to read the North Korean propaganda

Korean Central News Agency (KCNA)

Congratulatory letter to General Secretary Kim Jong Il from Choe Hong Hui[/h]Pyongyang, October 16 (1997) (KCNA) -- General Secretary Kim Jong Il received a congratulatory letter from Choe Hong Hui, President of the International Taekwondo Federation, on his election as General Secretary of the Workers' Party of Korea on Oct. 8. Choe Hong Hui said in the letter that he extends the highest glory and warmest congratulations to general Kim Jong Il, the defender of the motherland and the symbol of all victories and the future, reflecting the common minds of the Korean nation and humankind and on behalf of the 40 million taekwondo players. General Kim Jong Il is just like President Kim Il Sung and the entire nation should live under the care of the general, the true defender of the nation and lodestar of the reunification of the country, he noted, and added: "Excited at the happy news, all overseas Koreans and I renew our determination to uphold and follow you as our eternal leader and savior of the nation." "No matter which way the wind may blow, I will fully support the reunification proposals advanced by President Kim Il Sung and you, and devote myself to their realization, with firm confidence that the country will be reunified as it is led by you."

 

[Dirty Dog]

Interesting how many of those "credible sources" specifically refer to General Choi as 'the founder of taekwondo'... so now I guess you'll be telling us that the parts agreeing with you are correct, while those that disagree with you are wrong.

opcorn:

:sp32:

 

[Bob Hubbard]

So the testimony of the North Korea terrorist who killed those innocent men, women and children are now somehow "propagada" and not reliable? Who is she speaking propaganda for, the USA and South Korea?

The testimony of CHOI Hong Hi's son, who was trained in terrorist camps, and trained terrorist in Taekwon-do at these terrorist camps, is not reliable? Is he speaking propaganda? Who is he speaking propaganda for, the USA, South Korea or Canada?

Don't know, don't care, not my concern. People who kill people aren't exactly credible in my view. If you can kill, how much harder is it to lie?

Read the terrorist book, "Tears of My Soul", read her article. Neither is a "blog." She was trained in Taekwon-do in the terrorist camp, and she did kill all those innocent men, women and children by bombing that Jet in mid-flight, in 1987 as the United Front Department, that funded CHOI Hong Hi's ITF wanted to disrupted the 1988 Olympics in Seoul. CHOI Hong Hi worked on his side to try and disrupt it through the IOC complaining about the WTF and South Korea, so much so that the IOC finally responded to him in a letter telling him that he and his members can simply join the WTF, so Choi failed on that mission. But the Taekwon-do disciple pulled it off, the terrorist KIM Hyun Lee did her part, using her "JUNG SHIN" to disrupt the Olympics by bombing the jet liner and raining bodies parts down over a 100 mile stretch of the China Sea.

You have the ISBN, why not contact the author and see what he has to say?

Not my job to validate your data.
Not my job to spend my money and time on this.
If you'd like to hire me to do the research, my time starts at $300/hr.
10 hour minimum, prepaid.

Feel free to order me any book you like.
Ship it to: MartialTalk - PO Box 1372 - Buffalo NY 14220

As to sources, credible to me has ties to the government, as in FBI, CIA, DOJ, DHS, SS, etc News I give little credibility to these days. Blame Fox, CNN & MSNBC for my skepticism there.

Yes, I know I'm being a stubborn jackass here. But if your claims falter under my questioning, a courtroom will be a lot hotter. I have to back -you- up when I get pushed and people demand your heads and posts removed. I'm the one who gets the take-down notices and has to have my lawyer (who I pay btw) deal with them. I also notice that neither you nor puunui are supporting members. It'd be nice if the people who cause me to spend my money on legal headaches helped out from time to time, you know?

 

[mastercole]

Interesting how many of those "credible sources" specifically refer to General Choi as 'the founder of taekwondo'... so now I guess you'll be telling us that the parts agreeing with you are correct, while those that disagree with you are wrong.

opcorn:


:sp32:

The source are credible, they are simply reprinted what CHOI Hong Hi's son said. Other than that I have no opinion, but you seem to have one, so why not share it?

 

[Dirty Dog]

The source are credible, they are simply reprinted what CHOI Hong Hi's son said. Other than that I have no opinion, but you seem to have one, so why not share it?

I agree with Bob on this. People who will kill will also lie.

I just find it entertaining when people post a source and say "See? This supports me, so it's right. But ignore that part over there where it disagrees with me, because that's obviously wrong."

 

[puunui]

Yes, I know I'm being a stubborn jackass here. But if your claims falter under my questioning, a courtroom will be a lot hotter. I have to back -you- up when I get pushed and people demand your heads and posts removed. I'm the one who gets the take-down notices and has to have my lawyer (who I pay btw) deal with them. I also notice that neither you nor puunui are supporting members. It'd be nice if the people who cause me to spend my money on legal headaches helped out from time to time, you know?

First of all, who would bring you to court over this? North Korea? GM CHOI Jung Hwa?

Secondly, exactly what have I done that would cause you legal headaches? All I did was post a link that you may wish to read. How does that expose you, criminally, civilly or otherwise? Have you had to hire an attorney and/or had to spend money on legal headaches because of me? If so, in what way?

 

[mastercole]

Don't know, don't care, not my concern. People who kill people aren't exactly credible in my view. If you can kill, how much harder is it to lie?



Not my job to validate your data.
Not my job to spend my money and time on this.
If you'd like to hire me to do the research, my time starts at $300/hr.
10 hour minimum, prepaid.

Feel free to order me any book you like.
Ship it to: MartialTalk - PO Box 1372 - Buffalo NY 14220

As to sources, credible to me has ties to the government, as in FBI, CIA, DOJ, DHS, SS, etc News I give little credibility to these days. Blame Fox, CNN & MSNBC for my skepticism there.

Yes, I know I'm being a stubborn jackass here. But if your claims falter under my questioning, a courtroom will be a lot hotter. I have to back -you- up when I get pushed and people demand your heads and posts removed. I'm the one who gets the take-down notices and has to have my lawyer (who I pay btw) deal with them. I also notice that neither you nor puunui are supporting members. It'd be nice if the people who cause me to spend my money on legal headaches helped out from time to time, you know?

How credible is the proceedings from a US Congressional Hearing?

From the USA CONGRESSIONAL HEARING on this very subject

&#8220;North Korean spy camp and given indoctrination lectures together with
physical training, including Judo, Taekwondo, Karate&#8221;

Full proceedings http://democrats.foreignaffairs.hous.../shi042706.pdf

I understand your concerns, however, I don't see how bring attention to these media stories, from the world most credible media outlets will drag anyone into a lawsuit. But if you are concerned, we can start a different thread.

What is a supporting member by the way?

 

[puunui]

I agree with Bob on this. People who will kill will also lie.

Try that in court. Evidence of someone killing another is not admissible or relevant evidence that that person is lying, and will be most likely excluded through a motion in limine prior to trial. Rule FRE 404(b)

 

[Dirty Dog]

Try that in court. Evidence of someone killing another is not admissible or relevant evidence that that person is lying, and will be most likely excluded through a motion in limine prior to trial. Rule FRE 404(b)

Fortunately, in THIS case, the only judge that matters to me is me. And I've ruled that common sense (something sadly lacking in the US legal system) applies at all time. Murderers will lie.

 

[mastercole]

I agree with Bob on this. People who will kill will also lie.

In this case, I think North Korea would certainly agree with you. They call the USA the killers and the liars all the time. The United Front Department even publishes propaganda pictures to support it.

I just find it entertaining when people post a source and say "See? This supports me, so it's right. But ignore that part over there where it disagrees with me, because that's obviously wrong."

Those are your words, not mine. I agree that everything they published came out of CHOI Jung Hwa's mouth, I never said I did not.

 

[mastercole]

Fortunately, in THIS case, the only judge that matters to me is me. And I've ruled that common sense (something sadly lacking in the US legal system) applies at all time. Murderers will lie.

Given all the evidence, and being that I am a Patriot, I will side with the United States, South Korea and the rest of our Allies on this one. But to each his own.

 

[ralphmcpherson]

It would appear that the "kukkiwon sign up commitee" are at it again.

 

[puunui]

Fortunately, in THIS case, the only judge that matters to me is me. And I've ruled that common sense (something sadly lacking in the US legal system) applies at all time. Murderers will lie.

Bob is talking about a lawsuit or potential lawsuit, not what matters to you. And your comment is not common sense. Just because someone is a murderer doesn't necessarily mean that they are a liar. In fact, Rule 404(b) was enacted specifically so that people don't do exactly what you are doing, namely convict someone of a totally separate crime because they committed some other crime previously because he is a "bad person". Or to quote the rule immediately preceding it, Rule 403, the probative value (of introducing evidence of a murder) is substantially outweighed by the danger of unfair prejudice, confusion of the issues, or misleading the jury/fact finder. And, for your information, the us legal system is built upon the concept of common sense, or what the reasonable person would do.

 

[mastercole]

It would appear that the "kukkiwon sign up commitee" are at it again.

That's a different thread, coming soon.

 

[Dirty Dog]

Given all the evidence, and being that I am a Patriot, I will side with the United States, South Korea and the rest of our Allies on this one. But to each his own.

Really? Now you're going to try to pretend that anybody who disagrees or questions you isn't a patriot?:BSmeter:

 

[Dirty Dog]

Bob is talking about a lawsuit or potential lawsuit, not what matters to you. And your comment is not common sense. Just because someone is a murderer doesn't necessarily mean that they are a liar. In fact, Rule 404(b) was enacted specifically so that people don't do exactly what you are doing, namely convict someone of a totally separate crime because they committed some other crime previously because he is a "bad person". Or to quote the rule immediately preceding it, Rule 403, the probative value (of introducing evidence of a murder) is substantially outweighed by the danger of unfair prejudice, confusion of the issues, or misleading the jury/fact finder. And, for your information, the us legal system is built upon the concept of common sense, or what the reasonable person would do.

It may have started out as being so based, but it's strayed far from it's origins. Only a lawyer would claim that a murder is an honest person, and do it with a straight face.