Islamaphobiaphobia in Britain...?

[billc]

An interesting article on islamaphobiaphobia and the British police...

http://www.americanthinker.com/2012/05/muhammad_raped_while_bobby_stayed_mum.html

However, it is the delayed response by police and civil service in the area that is the national scandal. In August of 2008, one of the victims, then 15 years old, went to police and social workers; she provided the police with [COLOR=#009900 !important]DNA evidence[/COLOR] ...Twice the police refused to prosecute.

Former Labour MP Ann Cryer said the silence of the Manchester Bobbies is due to the fact that they were "petrified of being called racists." The Manchester police and Rochdale social services publicly apologized, but their fears of being given the scarlet "R" were not in vain.
The accusation of racism can end public servants' careers, so oftentimes they must revert to political correctness.
Political correctness was also the fallback for most of the politicians in the House of Commons. Leading MP Keith Vaz stated...but that it was important not to "stigmatize an entire community." He later stated, "I don't think this has anything to do with race."

 

[Jenna]

Yes this is another group of disgusting people to do these things and but there are many others if you are making the point that they are mostly Pakistan / Afghan then unfortunately there is not just these groups trafficking people.. there is a great deal of trafficking from Lithuania and western soviet nations to here also.. and from SE Asia they had trafficked even children! to work on cannabis factories here it is horrific.. it is a very terrible problem I have seen it first hand here in my borough.. It is not a problem isolated to one religious grouping if that is the point Bill.. these are men that happen to be from one religious grouping there are other men (and women) from others who treat a person as a commodity.. it is disgusting to me..

 

[Tez3]

Islamaphobia is the fear and hatred of Islam, what your article is saying is that the police etc are scared of looking as if they are being Islamaphobic so aren't chasing down people they should be. You have got this all back to front. The accusations are that the police are being too politically correct not that they hate Muslims, quite the opposite, they were letting them get away with crimes.You can't post up a nonsense word and expect people to actually think you are serious. It's also a very narrow and rather biased account of what actually happened but hey thats what happens when you let the conservatives in government.
You really ought to read and comprehend before posting Bili.

 

[Sukerkin]

I do have to say that there is indeed a public perception, gathered from the news reporting, that this appalling problem is primarily one that affects a certain sub-set of the Asian immigrant population. How accurate that perception is is hard to say of course, for we are all shaped by the news we have access to.

This quote is very telling, however:

However, Equalities and Human Rights Commission chief Trevor Phillips said, "I think anybody who says that the fact that most of the men are Asian and most of the children are white is not relevant, I mean that's just fatuous." Nazir Afzal, the chief crown prosecutor, who himself is a Muslim, stated that some immigrants bring "cultural baggage" with them from misogynistic societies.

Here is a link to some BBC coverage of the case:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-17989463

 

[Sukerkin]

Equally affecting are crimes like this one:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-18161063

This particular case has a special resonance for me in that, altho' it was nothing more than a passing recognition in the street, I knew this family as they lived nearby a girl-friend of mine. It is an odd quirk of human nature that the very fact that I saw this girl when she was still a baby in a pushchair makes it that much more of an emotional reaction over and above the revulsion that such a crime evokes.

 

[Sukerkin]

A further recent example is here:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-cumbria-17829627

 

[Sukerkin]

Now it would be easy to conclude from these news stories that not only is this criminal exploitation common-place but that it is the province of the Muslim immigrants who do not share our values and come from a society wherein the abuse of women is the norm. Sadly, to an extent, there is some truth in that, as there is in the fact that these men see British women as even more worthless than those of their own ethnicity.

But it is not the whole of the picture. It is a highly visible and easily pointed to part of the picture, it is true but, as Jenna mentioned above, there are equally terrible 'commercial' prostitution rings being run from Eastern Europe through to Western Europe. It's just not so easy to isolate them for villification as they are not so visibly different from 'us'.

What to do about it, I don't know. For me, sad to say, I have become more 'racist' (aka pro-British) as the mix of my society is distrubed too quickly by politically motivated immigration policies made by those that do not have to live in the communities disrupted by them. If someone like me, well educated, fair minded and essentially Liberal, can start to think so, then what do you think those who are in their heart supporters of such organisations as the BNP are going to feel and act on?

 

[Tez3]

The problem too is in the 'care system', the fact that the girls were white is less relevant than that they were in care homes..the old orphanages. Many of the girls were troubled and problematic, their needs were totally overlooked by the authorities which allowed them to be preyed on by these man, a couple of whom btw were white. there have been other problems with children who are taken in care, the system is broken and needs fixing something I fear will be overlooked when people look at these cases seeing only that a gang of men used these girls. these girls should not have been there in the first place for anyone to use, they have been badly let down all round.

 

[billc]

Jenna, I also recognize that other groups commit the same crimes as these men, but the article was about the police hesitating because of the religious/ethnic/national background of this particular group of monsters. Do the police hesitate when the former soviet block criminals are brought to their attention? In the article, it was a labour MP who brought up the issue of possible allegations of racism that delayed the police in helping these girls. A labour MP is hardly a political soul mate of mine.

I think the term islamaphobiaphobia is quite accurate for what is happening in some of these cases. Here, across the pond, we had Major hassan shoot over 30 people in an act of islamic jihad and our islamaphobiaphobics called it work place violence, to avoid addressing his radical religious ties.

 

[Big Don]

Islamaphobia is the fear and hatred of Islam, what your article is saying is that the police etc are scared of looking as if they are being Islamaphobic so aren't chasing down people they should be.

Fear, as in fear of being targeted for being honest about the misdeeds of people who are Islamic is STILL Islamaphobia. You should read what Penn Jillette wrote about why they will criticize every other religion, but, not, and never, Islam.

 

[billc]

Where do I find Penn talking about this? He is a pretty well spoken guy, for a weird guy, and I heard him recently on Hannity's radio show.

Hmmm...I forgot to mention that I am not surprised that the state run "orphanages," failed these girls.

 

[Josh Oakley]

Penn Gillette? You can YouTube it, I will see if i can find it. You might also want to look into Sam Harris's comments about Islam. I think you would appreciate them.

Sent from my DROID RAZR using Tapatalk 2

 

[Tez3]

Where do I find Penn talking about this? He is a pretty well spoken guy, for a weird guy, and I heard him recently on Hannity's radio show.

Hmmm...I forgot to mention that I am not surprised that the state run "orphanages," failed these girls.

The care home the girls came from wasn't 'state' run it was a private one. Thatcher privatised most care and old people's homes.

http://www.healthinvestor.co.uk/(A(...ws.aspx?ID=2261&AspxAutoDetectCookieSupport=1

 

[Big Don]

Jillette:

Are there any groups you won't go after? We haven't tackled Scientology because Showtime doesn't want us to. Maybe they have deals with individual Scientologists—I'm not sure. And we haven't tackled Islam because we have families.

 

[Tez3]

Don, which do you consider worse, censorship because there's money involved or for fear of reprisals?

I don't think it's Islam as such they should be going after, it's the fundamentalist Muslims. As with all fundamentalists they are fanatics to the point almost of madness, they are what we have to fear not Islam. No belief system or religion is immune to having fundamentalists, we need to watch our own as well.

 

[Big Don]

Don, which do you consider worse, censorship because there's money involved or for fear of reprisals?

I don't think it's Islam as such they should be going after, it's the fundamentalist Muslims. As with all fundamentalists they are fanatics to the point almost of madness, they are what we have to fear not Islam. No belief system or religion is immune to having fundamentalists, we need to watch our own as well.

I don't find any brand of cowardice particularly palatable, but, moral cowardice is, in my book, worse.
You can repeat that tripe about fundamentalists in every religion ad naseum, and you and others have... But, that doesn't change the fact that every other religion isn't exempted from criticism for fear of reprisals.
Allow me to again quote Jillette:

You do go after Christians, though ... Teller and I have been brutal to Christians, and their response shows that they’re good ****ing Americans who believe in freedom of speech. We attack them all the time, and we still get letters that say, “We appreciate your passion. Sincerely yours, in Christ.” Christians come to our show at the Rio and give us Bibles all the time. They’re incredibly kind to us. Sure, there are a couple of them who live in garages, give themselves titles and send out death threats to me and Bill Maher and Trey Parker. But the vast majority are polite, open-minded people, and I respect them for that.

 

[Jenna]

Jenna, I also recognize that other groups commit the same crimes as these men, but the article was about the police hesitating because of the religious/ethnic/national background of this particular group of monsters. Do the police hesitate when the former soviet block criminals are brought to their attention? In the article, it was a labour MP who brought up the issue of possible allegations of racism that delayed the police in helping these girls. A labour MP is hardly a political soul mate of mine.

I think the term islamaphobiaphobia is quite accurate for what is happening in some of these cases. Here, across the pond, we had Major hassan shoot over 30 people in an act of islamic jihad and our islamaphobiaphobics called it work place violence, to avoid addressing his radical religious ties.

Yes the CPS aplogised over not treating the first girls accusations with the seriousness due and but I do not know about potential allegations of racism delaying intervention that is speculation on this MPs part.. For me I would have said the delay was because police they have not much until now associated trafficking with Pakistan/Afghani interests.. it has mostly (here in London at least) been from baltic / former soviet bloc nations, from SE Asia and also I think from nations in Africa.. I think they were blind to this issue.. Here yes there was much made of the religious affiliations of these criminals.. by these criminals theirselves and by others with religious agendas of their own seeking to tar all with a single brush.. I think it is sad because that is to misdirect attention away from the horror of the crime..

I think Sukerkin had lifted the most pertinent quotation that many immigrants bring unacceptable cultural baggage.. the quote says baggage from misogynistic societies and but unfortunately there is trafficking in children of both genders.. Cultural baggage it is not simply religious..

I will say Bill you are correct in that those nations with the worst records of both misogyny and trafficking are identified Islamic nations.. Saudi Arabia and Yemen and kuwait.. Iran I think also? I know Sudan in Africa and also Turkmenistan these all are the worst of all.. again though, I would only ask please to be careful not to draw a simplistic cause-and-effect conclusion as it is speculative and not evidence based..

And Hasan this was Fort hood yes?? he was not an army psychologist there?? You have a citation of these radical ties you are sayin? I did not think American newspeople would have made this an evil-of-Islam thing as there are many American Muslim people that serve in all of the military branches I think it was 2 or 3000 were sent even to Iraq.. anyway I am interested in your thoughts Bill thank you..

 

[billc]

Well, Penn and Teller have already done a show on the bible and taken on christianity, and I think everyone already knows that it is the radical muslims that are the problem, but notice, the fundamentalist christians aren't the people Penn and Teller are afraid of, it's the radical muslims who chop off heads. If Showtime, a private company doesn't want their employees to do a show on scientology, it isn't a problem, they make decisions based on making money. Their goal after all is to be profitable, and it is their company. The problem with censorship is when the government does it.

If the orphanages are privately run, then I would think that some people who are in charge should be going to jail. Although they are privately run, do they get money from the government to operate? That would make a big difference in how the problem is created.

 

[billc]

Here is a quick article on Major hassan...

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052748704409004576146001069880040.html

In this report, titled "A Ticking Time Bomb" and put out by the Senate
Committee on Homeland Security and Governmental Affairs, there is a detail as
dazzling in its bleak way as all the glowing misrepresentations of Dr. Hasan's
skills and character, which his superiors poured into their evaluations of him.
It concerns the Department of Defense's official report on the Fort Hood
killings—a study whose recital of fact made no mention of Hasan's
well-documented jihadist sympathies. Subsequent DoD memoranda portray the
bloodbath—which began with Hasan shouting "Allahu Akbar!"—as a kind of undefined
extremism, something on the order, perhaps, of work-place violence.

This avoidance of specifics was apparently contagious—or, more precisely,
policy. In November 2010, each branch of the military issued a final report on
the Fort Hood shooting. Not one mentioned the perpetrator's ties to radical
Islam. Even today, "A Ticking Time Bomb," co-authored by Sen. Joe Lieberman (I.,
Conn.) and Susan Collins (R., Maine), reminds us that DoD still hasn't
specifically named the threat represented by the Fort Hood attack—a signal to
the entire Defense bureaucracy that the subject is taboo.

For the superiors in charge of Hasan's training at Walter Reed and his two
years at Uniformed Services University of the Health Sciences, the taboo was of
a more complicated order—one that required elaborately inventive analyses
through which Hasan's stated beliefs, ominous pronouncements, and evident
unconcern with standards of behavior required of an officer could all be
represented as singular virtues, proof of his exceptional value to the Army. It
could not have been easy. Still, they managed.

They did so despite Hasan's astounding trail of performances, each more
telling than the next. To fulfill Walter Reed's academic requirement for a
presentation on a psychiatric theme, Hasan proffered a draft consisting almost
entirely of wisdom from the Quran arguing for the painful punishment and
liquidation of non-Muslims. Hasan evidently viewed the Quranic verses as a
sufficient presentation—a view his superior didn't share, given its lack of any
mention of a psychiatric theme. When that guide warned him the presentation was
"not scholarly" and might prevent his graduation, Hasan revised. The finished
product was not much different. Still, Hasan was allowed to graduate.

He went on to his medical fellowship, where he soon delivered another class
lecture, this one on the Islamist theme that the West, in particular the U.S
military, had mounted a war on Islam. The presentation brimmed with views
sympathetic to Osama bin Laden, the motives of the 9/11 perpetrators, and
suicide bombers. It so infuriated his classmates that their outraged eruptions
caused the instructor to end the presentation.

There would be more of the same to come. One classmate witness told
investigators that Hasan sought every possible opportunity to share his radical
Islamist sympathies. His highest obligation, he told classmates, wasn't to the
Constitution, which he had sworn to protect and defend, but to his
religion.

His Islamist sympathies would attract the interest of the FBI, which soon
picked up on this U.S Army major's contacts with a terrorist suspect, unnamed in
the Senate report. The agency would, however, have no continuing great interest
in Hasan. Among other reasons, its agents had seen the impressive evaluation
reports characterizing Hasan as an authority on Islam—one whose work even had
"extraordinary potential to inform national policy and military strategy," as
one of his superiors put it in his officer evaluation report.


The same Hasan who set off silent alarms in his supervisors—the Psychiatric
Residency Program Director at Walter Reed was one of them—would garner only
plaudits in the official written evaluations at the time. He was commended in
these as a "star officer," one focused on "illuminating the role of culture and
Islamic faith within the Global War on Terrorism." One supervisor testified,
"His unique interests have captured the interest and attention of peers and
mentors alike." No single word of criticism or doubt about Hasan ever made its
way into any of his evaluations.

Some of those enthusiastic testaments strongly suggested that the writers
were themselves at least partly persuaded of their reasoning. In magical
thinking, safety and good come to those who obey taboos, and in the
multiculturalist world, there is no taboo more powerful than the one that
forbids acknowledgment of realities not in keeping with the progressive vision.
In the world of the politically correct—which can apparently include places
where psychiatrists are taught—magical thinking reigns.

So, as you can see, islamaphobiaphobia is a problem over here as well.

 

[billc]

For a bit of humor, here is a clip on this very subject from a short lived comedy show "The Half hour news hour,"...