Is Wing Chun even viable.

[Gerry Seymour]

I didn't argue against any of that.

What I am arguing is that martial arts..their primary purpose..is fighting. Even the fitness moms are still throwing punches and kicks.(sort of)

Okay, that's different from what I thought you were saying, MD. I'd agree that the primary purpose of (generic reference) martial arts is fighting. But that's not the only (nor even the primary) purpose of any given instance of martial arts - unless, of course, we use a definition that makes it so.

 

[drop bear]

I think there's a lot of truth in that.

That changing a person's priorities that you have never noticed?

 

[Steve]

Yes. That's my point, though you apparently thought my point was something different. His Tae Bo was for people who weren't interested in learning to fight, but wanted some of the same fitness benefits of his fight-oriented training. So he took the punches and kicks and took the fight out of them.

If only a ninjutsu school were as up front.

 

[Gerry Seymour]

Just to clarify, I am using aikido as a placeholder, and not trying to call out aikido alone. I agree that many martial arts dont realize their gaps. I would say further that the more invested in a style one becomes through tenure and rank, the more intentional this gap becomes. Said the other way, as folks gain rank and longevity in an art, they become more entrenched in the propaganda of that art, and less receptive to contrary information.

I think it's a reasonable statement about much of current Aikido. There are exceptions within both the art and the family of Aikido, but it's a reasonable generalization. And there are certainly examples outside Aikido, as well.

And I think you're on point that the longer we invest our time, effort, and sweat into something, the more we tend to defend that investment with rationalization when it is challenged (by information or an individual).

 

[Gerry Seymour]

The OP of course in this case was told his motivation was wrong.

Which happens a bit.

People have come on this forum and asked the question what martial art for self defense. And been told their reasons for doing martial arts is wrong.

I don't think anyone has come in and asked for the most fun martial arts and been corrected.

I don't recall anyone coming in and asking about self-defense and being told their motivation was wrong. They might have been corrected on the idea that there's one "best", or on their reasoning for seeking a specific art, but I can't recall an instance of folks saying SD was a wrong reason for looking into MA.

 

[drop bear]

I don't recall anyone coming in and asking about self-defense and being told their motivation was wrong. They might have been corrected on the idea that there's one "best", or on their reasoning for seeking a specific art, but I can't recall an instance of folks saying SD was a wrong reason for looking into MA.

Really?

"Most people don't want to learn how to fight. Even when they say that they do. most people in love with the idea of fighting.. They imagine themselves as fighter."

"I think there's a lot of truth in that."

 

[Monkey Turned Wolf]

The OP of course in this case was told his motivation was wrong.

Which happens a bit.

People have come on this forum and asked the question what martial art for self defense. And been told their reasons for doing martial arts is wrong.

I don't think anyone has come in and asked for the most fun martial arts and been corrected.

That has happened actually, a couple times. Mainly when someone talks about xma or wushu, and gets told it's not realistic, and doesnt count as MA.
Personally, I find wushu incredibly impressive looking

 

[drop bear]

That has happened actually, a couple times. Mainly when someone talks about xma or wushu, and gets told it's not realistic, and doesnt count as MA.
Personally, I find wushu incredibly impressive looking

Pretty sure it wasn't team kill monster though.

That is generally the hilarious backflip done by the let's get along crowd.

 

[Gerry Seymour]

Really?

"Most people don't want to learn how to fight. Even when they say that they do. most people in love with the idea of fighting.. They imagine themselves as fighter."

"I think there's a lot of truth in that."

Where in that does it say wanting to learn to fight is wrong?

 

[Gerry Seymour]

That changing a person's priorities that you have never noticed?

I don't follow that sentence, DB.

 

[Monkey Turned Wolf]

Pretty sure it wasn't team kill monster though.

That is generally the hilarious backflip done by the let's get along crowd.

Yup, it's generally the people that say "all MA is good MA" who make that complain. I know what you mean by the let's get along crowd, I have no idea what you mean by team kill monster though. Without naming names, what qualifies someone for that team?

 

[drop bear]

Yup, it's generally the people that say "all MA is good MA" who make that complain. I know what you mean by the let's get along crowd, I have no idea what you mean by team kill monster though. Without naming names, what qualifies someone for that team?

Team kill monster is those guys who argue martial arts is for fighting.

 

[drop bear]

Where in that does it say wanting to learn to fight is wrong?

You are saying they don't want to learn to fight after they just told you they did?

Happens heaps here.

 

[drop bear]

I don't follow that sentence, DB.

You are flat earthing me again.

You don't notice because you refuse to notice.

 

[DocWard]

The OP of course in this case was told his motivation was wrong.

Which happens a bit.

People have come on this forum and asked the question what martial art for self defense. And been told their reasons for doing martial arts is wrong.

I don't think anyone has come in and asked for the most fun martial arts and been corrected.

I will take your word when you assert that people are told often here that "self defense" as a motivation for studying the martial arts is wrong. In reviewing this thread, I'm not clear where that is being said, and if it is, how it is applicable. Perhaps it is because some posting use English as a second language, or they are posting in sentence fragments that I am failing to understand. It seems to me that if a person asks "is X martial art that my brother studies viable?," then answering "your motivation is wrong" is a non sequitur. Without a doubt, the thread has taken tangents regarding the purpose(s) of the martial arts, as well as some choosing to be critical of posting regarding the "viability" of arts in general due to historical arguments on the subject. Perhaps I am missing something though.

 

[DocWard]

That changing a person's priorities that you have never noticed?

I don't follow that sentence, DB.

You are flat earthing me again.

You don't notice because you refuse to notice.

Not to be rude DB, but I couldn't follow that sentence from a grammar standpoint, even trying to use context clues.

 

[Monkey Turned Wolf]

Team kill monster is those guys who argue martial arts is for fighting.

I like this. Gonna steal it in my head

 

[Gerry Seymour]

You are saying they don't want to learn to fight after they just told you they did?

Happens heaps here.

No, I’m saying some people don’t want to - based largely on what they actually say.

 

[Gerry Seymour]

You are flat earthing me again.

You don't notice because you refuse to notice.

Ok.

 

[drop bear]

Not to be rude DB, but I couldn't follow that sentence from a grammar standpoint, even trying to use context clues.

I was trying to type quickly.

Ok. Recap.

Basically gpseymor did exactly what I said he does. Takes the priorities of someone and shifts them to his own. So someone says they want one thing. But that isn't really what they want.

As I said this happens a lot. Just in general. The biggest example is self defense. Generally a poster will come on and say they got beat up or something and want to learn to defend themselves. Which generally comes out they want to know how to fight.

And then they get informed that self defense isn't fighting and what they really want is something else. They really want fun or avoidance or people skills or something. That all martial arts are equal in this endeavor.

Now if anyone remembers back to fat kid and the running race. It becomes the same deal. If fat kid wants to win a race he can go about it in two ways. He can either get faster through effort or enter a race where everyone wins.

Obviously you can convince fat kid that winning a race does not necessarily mean being the fastest. And it is probably genetics anyway. So his priorities really are something else.

And that is how this striving for mediocrity as a concept comes about.

The flat earth bit is after explaining all of this, providing quotes and everything he still just doesn't see it. Therefore the flat earth reference.

So basically I keep bringing these concepts up because they keep occurring. And I constantly receive the reply of "nope never happens"

And by the way. Not wanting to get sore from exercise is striving for mediocrity.