Is Wing Chun even viable.

[drop bear]

Not really no...their are professional with records of 1-20 does that make them a good standard. Look at a guy like Jason Thacker from tuf 1 he was a pro fighter you think he's a high standard?

You are still making a judgment off their record. Or from evidence. Which you can just jump on google and check.

Jason "Strange Brew" Thacker MMA Stats, Pictures, News, Videos, Biography - Sherdog.com
So Jason thacker would want to have some impressive students.

Also 1-20 also would suggest not a sensible lifestyle choice.

 

[drop bear]

You sometimes assume an intent of inspiring toward mediocrity where it doesn't exist. In the past, you've confounded accepting students' priorities with this.

I don't think you understand the difference between a students priorities and their comfort zones. I think most students actually want to see results.

I like these little videos because it gives a snapshot in to the lives of people who train martial arts.

These are the same people everyone else is training. They are not getting hard combat monsters and everyone else is getting the wimps. The training is what makes the change.

If like the fat kid in the running race you manufacture results. You are in theory meeting the priorities of that child. But you are not really helping the child become any better.

Which is aspiring towards mediocrity.

 

[drop bear]

When someone walks in to a martial arts gym for the first time they are looking for a lifestyle change. And they can't do that if you don't change their lifestyle.

 

[Kung Fu Wang]

When someone walks in to a martial arts gym for the first time they are looking for a lifestyle change. And they can't do that if you don't change their lifestyle.

Agree! When you teach a night club bouncer, if you can't teach him something that can help him to do his daily job, he won't stay with you. If you teach him a form or ask him to stand horse stance, he won't come back.

 

[Gerry Seymour]

I don't think you understand the difference between a students priorities and their comfort zones. I think most students actually want to see results.

I like these little videos because it gives a snapshot in to the lives of people who train martial arts.

These are the same people everyone else is training. They are not getting hard combat monsters and everyone else is getting the wimps. The training is what makes the change.

If like the fat kid in the running race you manufacture results. You are in theory meeting the priorities of that child. But you are not really helping the child become any better.

Which is aspiring towards mediocrity.

I think you confound them as much as you claim I do.

 

[Gerry Seymour]

Agree! When you teach a night club bouncer, if you can't teach him something that can help him to do his daily job, he won't stay with you. If you teach him a form or ask him to stand horse stance, he won't come back.

That depends. I've known bouncers who were quite fond of forms.

 

[Bill Mattocks]

If you want to develop

- roundhouse kick, you take the MT path.
- side kick, you take the TKD path.
- hook punch, you take the boxing path.
- hip throw, you take the Chinese wrestling (or Judo) path.
- single leg, you take the wrestling path.
- ground game, you take the BJJ path.
- center line principle (or chain punches), you take the WC path.
- ...

If you want to develop "flying knee", WC will not be your path.

Isshinryu is all that is needed.

 

[Bill Mattocks]

That depends. I've known bouncers who were quite fond of forms.

One of our 6th Dan senseis was a bouncer. He's been doing kata for 30 years.

 

[drop bear]

I think you confound them as much as you claim I do.

Then you noticed on this thread for example where the OP was told to have different priorities.

 

[Gerry Seymour]

Then you noticed on this thread for example where the OP was told to have different priorities.

I don't recall seeing that.

 

[drop bear]

I don't recall seeing that.

Lol. Of course.

Anyway my point is there are some gyms who can manage to inspire excellence and be open to hobbiests and the less talented.

But those gyms were probably just lucky and just happened to get students that were motivated to do better.

 

[Gerry Seymour]

Lol. Of course.

Anyway my point is there are some gyms who can manage to inspire excellence and be open to hobbiests and the less talented.

But those gyms were probably just lucky and just happened to get students that were motivated to do better.

I've never said you can't do both. I can't do both (I don't offer enough class time to satisfy those who want to really work hard), so I don't attract folks who are looking to work their butts off. One of the things I love about MMA gyms, as a whole, is they tend (the places I've been) to have more opportunities for training - open equipment, classes all the damned time, etc.

But even that won't change priorities. If someone has prioritized their MA training as a "nice to have", and something they are willing to put a few hours into a week, inspiration won't raise that priority level. Now, if they fall in love with their training, they may change that priority - until they do, they won't put more time in. So, yeah, inspiration can cause people to bring more to the table. But that's not entirely in the instructor's control. People are attracted to a school for what it offers. Many of us (and I'm among that number) did the 2/week thing for a while and ended up doing much more for periods of time.

So, maybe what you've missed in our past discussions is this: I can't really serve (as a primary training source) for someone who wants to train long and hard. So I make no attempt to attract them. At the new school, that might change, since they'd have the option of training two arts (and many more classes), if the Karate classes are vigorous enough (I've only had a chance to watch kids' classes and BB classes).

But nowhere in that is mediocrity my aim, which is something you seem to imply regularly.

 

[lklawson]

I've been at the Wing Chun thing for creeping up on 30 years now (Im getting old over here it seems), and I don't find this post, or any honest inquiry insulting. The only people that get insulted by this sort of thing are the ones that are either insecure in their own training, thin skinned, or both. In any case, it's nobodies duty to coddle their feelings.

Let the kid ask his questions.

Feh.

I've been on martial arts internet forums that long, going all the way back to nntp. My experience is that these questions tend to lead to arguments, at best. If I had a nickle for every time I saw it. But whatever.

Does not coddling feelings include not coddling the kid's feelings too?

 

[lklawson]

Which is why this rhetoric of settling for second best of yourself because you lost in some genetic lottery irritates me so much.

99.999% of people lost "the genetic lottery." The vast majority of humans will be near the middle of the Bell with only a tiny fraction in the "exceptional" far right arm.

 

[lklawson]

What happend in the early days of UFC isnt general knowledge everyone learns.

Here.
Ultimate Fighting Championship - Wikipedia

 

[lklawson]

He has a valid point, HH. The discussion about early UFC wasn't about what happened in the fights, but about the debates around them (and some only tangentially related to them). He'd be hard-pressed to get much of that without spending hours a day digging through archives on various sites.

I still remember watching endless idiotic threads about whether or not Wing Chun (or Karate, or Japanese Jujutsu, or Krav Maga, or Kung Fu, or [fill in the blank any TMA]) was or was not "viable" because it did/did not "perform well" in UFC.

And they still crop up today. Our friend DropBear here is practically famous for his position of exactly this.

Peace favor your sword,
Kirk

 

[lklawson]

When someone walks in to a martial arts gym for the first time they are looking for a lifestyle change.

Some of them are, but some of them aren't. You can't assume.

 

[Martial D]

Feh.

I've been on martial arts internet forums that long, going all the way back to nntp. My experience is that these questions tend to lead to arguments, at best. If I had a nickle for every time I saw it. But whatever.

Does not coddling feelings include not coddling the kid's feelings too?

I've been doing the forum thing since the mid 90s or so too, I get the Mego effect reading the same loops get replayed over and over too.

But kid is 14… new to all of this and seems to be sincere. Sure, I know that a lot of these types of posts are laid out as bait or as passive agressive slights against certain styles, methods, or approaches, but I don't really think this is that.

And honestly, even if it is 'that', or when it is 'that', it's still better to either address the points being made with cogent counterpoints, or just not address it at all.

Just my 2c.

 

[drop bear]

99.999% of people lost "the genetic lottery." The vast majority of humans will be near the middle of the Bell with only a tiny fraction in the "exceptional" far right arm.

So you have already lost let's strive to be mediocre?

 

[lklawson]

So you have already lost let's strive to be mediocre?

I have no idea what you're talking about. I'm saying that the vast majority of humans don't have the genetics to be an olympic athlete. We just have to deal with that and maximize what we have.

I have no idea how that fits in with whatever you're going on about for "let's strive to be mediocre." <shrug>