Is Wing Chun even viable.

[ZockerSWAT]

I'll continue to be blunt, since it seems to be a bit more effective.

Asking "is martial art X 'viable' or not" is kinda insulting to people who practice X. It's apt to start a fight, particularly online.

Some people might, but some might even not get insulted.
Till now, there wasnt anything like that. To have an discussion you need an open mind. Here on this post were 2 people who practiced it
and gave their opinion on it and both of what they said seemed solid.
Somebody told me who wasnt practicing wing chun (or at least I belive he didnt mention that), said that just believing some videos isnt good.
2 People who practiced wing chun said they liked it and said, that with a good teacher and practical applications it can be viable. (Just like you need to spar in any other martial art to make that viable as well)

We are here to debate and have a discussion, ... or you guys have a discussion and I read and see everyones views and I make a statement out of it or just ask for one if I dont understand something.

Till now, everyone was friendly, and it seemed like everything was going well, till you tried whatever you are trying.
Its nice, that you dont want anybody to get insulted, but if its the topic of the discussion, everyone is supposed
to come in here with an open mind. I try not to get insulted even though you tried to insult me by basicly calling me
a troll or naive.

I also tried to be as friendly as I can, but you dont seem to be that way. Its okay to be blunt, and I prefer that, but in a civil, peaceful mannor.

Edit: Can we just please stop this. Everything was going so well. If you really wanna talk about it, we can do it on private messages, but lets not fill this post with all this.

 

[Kung Fu Wang]

Asking "is martial art X 'viable' or not" is kinda insulting to people who practice X.

The long fist is my primary system. If people ask, "Is long fist system good for fighting?" I don't think I will feel been insulted. At least people still know that there is a MA system that's called "long fist". I will be happy to discuss

- what's good in long fist (good for protecting center from outside in), and
- what's bad in long fist (bad for protecting center from inside out).

If I start a thread, "Is Taiji good for fighting?" Will all Taiji guys on this planet be mad at me? IMO, we should just discuss the subject and not the person who starts the threat.

 

[lklawson]

Some people might, but some might even not get insulted.
Till now, there wasnt anything like that. To have an discussion you need an open mind. Here on this post were 2 people who practiced it
and gave their opinion on it and both of what they said seemed solid.
Somebody told me who wasnt practicing wing chun (or at least I belive he didnt mention that), said that just believing some videos isnt good.
2 People who practiced wing chun said they liked it and said, that with a good teacher and practical applications it can be viable. (Just like you need to spar in any other martial art to make that viable as well)

We are here to debate and have a discussion, ... or you guys have a discussion and I read and see everyones views and I make a statement out of it or just ask for one if I dont understand something.

Till now, everyone was friendly, and it seemed like everything was going well, till you tried whatever you are trying.
Its nice, that you dont want anybody to get insulted, but if its the topic of the discussion, everyone is supposed
to come in here with an open mind. I try not to get insulted even though you tried to insult me by basicly calling me
a troll or naive.

I also tried to be as friendly as I can, but you dont seem to be that way. Its okay to be blunt, and I prefer that, but in a civil, peaceful mannor.

Edit: Can we just please stop this. Everything was going so well. If you really wanna talk about it, we can do it on private messages, but lets not fill this post with all this.

It's Friday. I'm done with this for the weekend.

 

[ZockerSWAT]

It's Friday. I'm done with this for the weekend.

Good. Still, wish you a nice weekend, and have a good night!
I am tired 'cause today was the most nerve wrecking day at school.
Got our Grades back (for the first half of the year).

Gn!

 

[DocWard]

After having read through the thread, it seems there is some good information here, and some comments that have left me trying to understand their necessity. My own experience with Wing Chun is very minimal, having done some work outs with a WC stylist when I was in law school and only an intermediate belt level in Kenpo. The guy I worked out with had gravitated to Wing Chun after studying an Okinawan style, Goju Ryu, if I recall correctly. For him, Wing Chun was the better "fit," and was one he was glad he had made. I do recall being impressed with his skill, but it was also clear that he had put a LOT of work into it as well.

After watching the posted clip, I am also of the opinion that for any situation one might find oneself, morality is the critical key. At what point is a person willing to fight? To save themselves? To save family or loved ones? The helpless? Ideals? That answer can only be answered by each individual for himself or herself. So long as the usage of the art doesn't shift to being aggressive toward others, to be used to attack and brutalize another who is not being violent, then it can be considered "defense." Putting too much focus on the word "self" at the expense of "defense," misses the point that the former can be looked at in many ways, by different people. When I was in the U.S. Army, I would have died in defense of my nation in the abstract, but on behalf of the soldiers serving by my side at a much more personal level, because they were closer to me than some blood relations. Some can not see defending any other than their family, their loved ones. Some can only see fighting if their own life depends on it. While it is easy to judge, there is no right or wrong answer, only answers that must be answered by each person, based upon their courage, their morals, and their understanding of God, or Karma, or reality as they know it.

 

[drop bear]

Some people might, but some might even not get insulted.
Till now, there wasnt anything like that. To have an discussion you need an open mind. Here on this post were 2 people who practiced it
and gave their opinion on it and both of what they said seemed solid.
Somebody told me who wasnt practicing wing chun (or at least I belive he didnt mention that), said that just believing some videos isnt good.
2 People who practiced wing chun said they liked it and said, that with a good teacher and practical applications it can be viable. (Just like you need to spar in any other martial art to make that viable as well)

We are here to debate and have a discussion, ... or you guys have a discussion and I read and see everyones views and I make a statement out of it or just ask for one if I dont understand something.

Till now, everyone was friendly, and it seemed like everything was going well, till you tried whatever you are trying.
Its nice, that you dont want anybody to get insulted, but if its the topic of the discussion, everyone is supposed
to come in here with an open mind. I try not to get insulted even though you tried to insult me by basicly calling me
a troll or naive.

I also tried to be as friendly as I can, but you dont seem to be that way. Its okay to be blunt, and I prefer that, but in a civil, peaceful mannor.

Edit: Can we just please stop this. Everything was going so well. If you really wanna talk about it, we can do it on private messages, but lets not fill this post with all this.

Ok. Here is how I perceive the mindset.

If your kid is in primary school and they have a race. Now somewhere in that school is a fat kid who will come last. Now coming last might hurt the ego of that kid. So instead of awarding a trophy to the winner which is insulting to everyone who didn't win. We award a trophy to everyone who participates.

The argument for this is that there are fast kids and fat kids and no amount of lifestyle changes will effect the dynamics of this situation. So there is no point comparing fat kid and fast kid. Because that is being mean.

Which by the way is a real thing.
Winning banned at more than half of school sports days | Daily Mail Online

 

[Martial D]

I'll continue to be blunt, since it seems to be a bit more effective.

Asking "is martial art X 'viable' or not" is kinda insulting to people who practice X. It's apt to start a fight, particularly online.

And that's kinda what it seems like you want to do right now. Fight.

So you want a link? Fortunately, there's one right here on this very forum:
The Newbie Guide to Martial Arts Training (ver 2.6) - by Jeff Pipkins

I've been at the Wing Chun thing for creeping up on 30 years now (Im getting old over here it seems), and I don't find this post, or any honest inquiry insulting. The only people that get insulted by this sort of thing are the ones that are either insecure in their own training, thin skinned, or both. In any case, it's nobodies duty to coddle their feelings.

Let the kid ask his questions.

 

[Kung Fu Wang]

The only people that get insulted by this sort of thing are ...

It depends on whether you belong to group A, or group B.

A: All MA system has PRO and CON.
B: My MA system has PRO but no CON.
A: My MA system X has PRO such as ..., and CON such as ...
B: You can criticize your MA system X any way you may like. But you should not criticize my MA system Y because my MA system Y is perfect.

Believe or not, sometime people may argue whether Judo has punch or not for more that 40 posts.

WC has much better reputation than long fist has. We have seen clips such as WC vs. boxing, WC vs. wrestling, ... When was last time that we have seen any clip such as long fist vs. boxing, long fist vs. wrestling, ...? There are none. Because people think long fist cannot be used for fighting.

 

[drop bear]

I've been at the Wing Chun thing for creeping up on 30 years now (Im getting old over here it seems), and I don't find this post, or any honest inquiry insulting. The only people that get insulted by this sort of thing are the ones that are either insecure in their own training, thin skinned, or both. In any case, it's nobodies duty to coddle their feelings.

Let the kid ask his questions.

The funniest part is it could be that the chun he is discussing is some sort of super nuggety fight gym. And as yet nobody knows one way or another.

 

[DocWard]

Ok. Here is how I perceive the mindset.

If your kid is in primary school and they have a race. Now somewhere in that school is a fat kid who will come last. Now coming last might hurt the ego of that kid. So instead of awarding a trophy to the winner which is insulting to everyone who didn't win. We award a trophy to everyone who participates.

The argument for this is that there are fast kids and fat kids and no amount of lifestyle changes will effect the dynamics of this situation. So there is no point comparing fat kid and fast kid. Because that is being mean.

Which by the way is a real thing.
Winning banned at more than half of school sports days | Daily Mail Online

Interestingly, when my daughter joined the cross country team in the Seventh Grade, she was slow. I don't mean just not as fast as some. In her first few races she finished last. Girls that finished ahead of her were able to do run-walk intervals and still finish ahead of her. Had she wanted to quit, I would have understood, and despite my admonition to not give up, let her quit. She didn't. By the end of her first year she was at the back of the pack, still. Second year was more of the same, although we could see improvement. It wasn't really until Tenth Grade that she started making huge improvements, and her Junior and Senior years saw her not winning races personally, but finishing well up, close enough to the front to be a valuable contributor to her team. Her mindset from the beginning was that those girls who didn't run the entire way were cheating themselves and their team. She didn't feel insulted by them, personally. Her pride in herself wouldn't let her quit, and her determination to get better saw her improve dramatically. In that sense, she has since been a personal hero of mine.

We don't progress, as individuals, athletes, martial artists, or as a society, if we choose to be insulted, or let our egos be hurt by someone who is better, or simply has a different opinion.

 

[drop bear]

Interestingly, when my daughter joined the cross country team in the Seventh Grade, she was slow. I don't mean just not as fast as some. In her first few races she finished last. Girls that finished ahead of her were able to do run-walk intervals and still finish ahead of her. Had she wanted to quit, I would have understood, and despite my admonition to not give up, let her quit. She didn't. By the end of her first year she was at the back of the pack, still. Second year was more of the same, although we could see improvement. It wasn't really until Tenth Grade that she started making huge improvements, and her Junior and Senior years saw her not winning races personally, but finishing well up, close enough to the front to be a valuable contributor to her team. Her mindset from the beginning was that those girls who didn't run the entire way were cheating themselves and their team. She didn't feel insulted by them, personally. Her pride in herself wouldn't let her quit, and her determination to get better saw her improve dramatically. In that sense, she has since been a personal hero of mine.

We don't progress, as individuals, athletes, martial artists, or as a society, if we choose to be insulted, or let our egos be hurt by someone who is better, or simply has a different opinion.

I have the same story with martial arts. I struggled against the able kids for ages until I saw how hard work and quality training does make people exceptional.

Which is why this rhetoric of settling for second best of yourself because you lost in some genetic lottery irritates me so much.

 

[JowGaWolf]

WC has much better reputation than long fist has. We have seen clips such as WC vs. boxing, WC vs. wrestling, ... When was last time that we have seen any clip such as long fist vs. boxing, long fist vs. wrestling, ...?

ha ha ha.. you don't see clips of long fist fighting because people don't want to mess with long fist. Long fist has them scared

 

[Headhunter]

If you have a bunch of professional fighters in the gym then you at least know you are going to get trained to a reasonable standard.

I mean the expectation you have when you learn something is that the person teaching you has any sort of clue as to what he is doing.

If you have no talent or more importantly have no commitment to be trained.That is a sepparate issue.

Now if you have no talent you should be more inclined to seek out good training because you are going to need all the help you can get. If you have no talent you will have to also train longer and harder. Not less.

I am really lost with this line of logic. Why do we constantly inspire people towards mediocrity?

Not really no...their are professional with records of 1-20 does that make them a good standard. Look at a guy like Jason Thacker from tuf 1 he was a pro fighter you think he's a high standard?

 

[Headhunter]

Edit: Thinking a 14 year old just trying to find his love in Martial Arts knows what happend at the start of the ufc. I probably wasnt even born then yet, or couldnt even walk.

lol makes me laugh when people say things like that. You weren't born then? So what there's this wonderful thing called the internet where you can research things. I wasn't around in the Wild West times but I still got an A* In my exams because I actually researched it.

 

[ZockerSWAT]

lol makes me laugh when people say things like that. You weren't born then? So what there's this wonderful thing called the internet where you can research things. I wasn't around in the Wild West times but I still got an A* In my exams because I actually researched it.

What happend in the early days of UFC isnt general knowledge everyone learns.
Something like School classes teach you thheese mendatory things. So exams are a mendatory thing and something like the internet and the early days of the UFC arent.
By that logic, it doesnt matter when for example maths was created because you are forced to learn it and you get the materials for it, but something like the UFC isnt. I didnt even know what it was till 2 weeks ago.

Yeah, there is the Interneg to researh things, but why should I randomly research the UFC. That makes no sense. Because it isnt mendatory, so new people of course dont know it. Just a light hearted comment saying I should research the early days of the UFC would've been enough.

 

[Gerry Seymour]

I am really lost with this line of logic. Why do we constantly inspire people towards mediocrity?

You sometimes assume an intent of inspiring toward mediocrity where it doesn't exist. In the past, you've confounded accepting students' priorities with this.

 

[Gerry Seymour]

People like to talk about SD. People don't like to take about moral situation any more. I still remember my long fist teacher told all his students that

"If you don't have a good reason to fight and you fight, I'll beat you up when I find out. If you have a good reason to fight and you don't fight, I'll also beat you up when I find out."

The 1st part is easy to understand. The 2nd part is the moral situation. The 侠(Xia) - heroic, brave and chivalrous is a very important part of the CMA training. Unfortunately, people don't talk about it very much today.

The legal landscape is part of the issue with this.

But I agree with JGW that this isn't a self-defense situation, though it's something I do talk about at times.

 

[Gerry Seymour]

lol makes me laugh when people say things like that. You weren't born then? So what there's this wonderful thing called the internet where you can research things. I wasn't around in the Wild West times but I still got an A* In my exams because I actually researched it.

He has a valid point, HH. The discussion about early UFC wasn't about what happened in the fights, but about the debates around them (and some only tangentially related to them). He'd be hard-pressed to get much of that without spending hours a day digging through archives on various sites.

 

[JowGaWolf]

What happend in the early days of UFC isnt general knowledge everyone learns.
Something like School classes teach you thheese mendatory things. So exams are a mendatory thing and something like the internet and the early days of the UFC arent.
By that logic, it doesnt matter when for example maths was created because you are forced to learn it and you get the materials for it, but something like the UFC isnt. I didnt even know what it was till 2 weeks ago.

Yeah, there is the Interneg to researh things, but why should I randomly research the UFC. That makes no sense. Because it isnt mendatory, so new people of course dont know it. Just a light hearted comment saying I should research the early days of the UFC would've been enough.

This is what has worked for me. Make friends with older people and they will be glad to fill you in on the things that happened when you weren't born. This applies to anything. Old people talk about old stuff.

 

[Kung Fu Wang]

Old people talk about old stuff.

Old stuff such as Audie Murphy,

and Alain Delon.

and Emy Jackson.