His mind is 100% in the striking. A good clinch can give him the opportunity to take his opponent down.
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Wing Chun Shuai Jiao Demonstration
Is Wing Chun even viable.
- Thread starter ZockerSWAT
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Wing Chun Shuai Jiao Demonstration
Confusing self defense with sport. We tend to compare martial arts with whether it will work in the ring. I hear many say: "oh, you would never see that in the ring" or "that would never work in the ring". I personally don't care about the ring. On the street, your self defense is training, technique and surprise. Your moves should be "faster than action". When I say technique, I mean almost ANY legitimate and well trained technique. All the classic martial arts give you the tools to defend yourself on the street. IMO, being well trained in Wing chun makes it viable on the street. Go for Wing chun, Muay Thai, Kenpo, FMA, Karate or whatever. Just go for it well.
Black belt in Eskrido de Alcuizar.
Black belt in Eskrido de Alcuizar.
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I think dismissing "the ring" is a mistake. While I agree that context makes a difference, and the opponent matters (many things work on less-trained folks, but won't work against that trained opponent in the ring), sport is an excellent place to get information. We can't get to anything like useful statistics about technique in self-defense situations, but we can with sport. Ignoring that information isn't using all your tools.
lklawson
Grandmaster
I've heard this "rings have rules, get you killed in the street" argument for, literally, decades now. I've heard it applied to pretty much every martial art, MMA, and even firearms competitions.
Here's what I know:
You don't have to engage in sporting competitions to learn how to fight and survive. But doing so does not harm your ability to fight and sometimes can help.
The more realistic the competition, the better. At the bottom end is "tag" style point sparring and bullseye shooting. But even they offer benefits that are directly applicable.
Peace favor your sword,
Kirk
I was once pretty close to the "rules get you killed" camp. My view is now much as you put here.
Yes, should have rephrased that to "as much about the ring". Of course, coming from a JKD background originally, I believe in absorb what is useful. With that said, a kick to the groin, head butt, breaking a bone or a gouge to the eyes typically ends an attack faster than breaking your hand on somebodies face.
Agree that
- sport is the path,
- combat is the goal.
I can't believe that we are still debating on simply logic like this today. Those illegal techniques uses in the ring (or on the mat) are the most effective techniques used in the street.
To kick someone when he is on the ground may be illegal in sport. It's deadly in the street. A student of mine, his son was killed by this.
A: Dear teacher! my son was kicked on the ground. There were blood in his skull. The doctor said there is nothing that he can do. Do you have any secret Chinese medicine that can save my son's life?
B: I'm sorry that I don't know any secret Chinese medicine that can save your son's life. I'm truly sorry.
I hate to let people down but I won't say what I don't know. That evening, my student lost his son. I lost my student's faith.
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drop bear
Sr. Grandmaster
I am going to say kind of statistically/anecdotally (if that is a thing)
It doesn't.
In that face punchy punchy ends more fights by far than any other move in a no rules fight as far as I can tell.
Karate student96
White Belt
Jesus Christ I don’t even use this site much but I keep seeing your dumbass comments everywhere talking trash about everything and anything....my experience the one with the biggest mouth is the one with the smallest amount of abilities
Because.....
lklawson
Grandmaster
And that's yet another can of worms. "Useful" varies enormously from person to person, place to place, and time period to time period. And example which I like to use from "knife fighting" is to compare the knives and techniques of 15th Century Germany, during the "Little Ice Age," to the knives and techniques of the tropical Philippines. Both had sophisticated knife fighting systems but both the weapons and the techniques were very different and one reason was because of the clothing relative to the physical environments of each. And much of the standard technique of each would not have been "useful" to be "absorbed" to the other.
At the same time, many of the underlying principals are similar. This is because humans are still built the same way, move the same, bend in the same places, break in the same ways, and die from the same injuries, regardless of the time or place. On a certain level, "fighting is fighting."
Ah well. I have more of that rant, but I think you can see where it goes.
Peace favor your sword,
Kirk
Ivan
Black Belt
The art itself is viable. It has been used in MMA by legends such as Jon Jones and I think GSP as well as Anderson Silva (could be wrong about the last two). The problem is the overly traditionalist way of training in China, and most schools that teach it, as they don't include sparring classes against more modern styles. It's quite hard to use a martial art against a boxer, if you have only ever sparred against people that use the same martial art as you - this especially applies to Wing Chun due to the uniqueness of the style, and its lack of resemblance to virtually any other style I have ever seen.
Here is Wing Chun in MMA. Even Joe Rogan acknowledges it works in this video:
Does Jon Jones know that?
Oily Dragon
Senior Master
Someone once asked me if Wing Chun was good for self defense "in a street fight". I told them no, go train in Sanshou first.
Came back to me later on, said they trained Sanshou but also Wing Chun and that I had been wrong.
Told them no a second time, and was right both times.
Came back to me later on, said they trained Sanshou but also Wing Chun and that I had been wrong.
Told them no a second time, and was right both times.
Insufficient long range methodology consisting of an underwhelming side kick, and possibly some stomps. No that I think the close range part is sufficient either....
Flying Crane
Sr. Grandmaster
You’ve trained in wing chun?
