Is weight training counterproductive?

[Lynne]

I can only take Tang Soo Do classes twice a week (contract). So, I will be going on Tuesdays and Saturdays.

I plan on practicing my forms, kicks, etc., at home on other days of the week.

I have free weights at home. I was thinking about lifting but I know I will be sore from TSD.

Do you think lifting on alternate days would be counterproductive to TSD???

 

[bushidomartialarts]

Nope. Weight training is a great (some might say essential) adjunct to martial arts training.

The only thing to look out for is overtraining. If you don't give your body enough rest between exercise sessions, you break yourself down instead of build yourself up. As you begin your weight training, listen to your body. It will tell you if this is happening.

 

[Carol]

Nope. Weight training is a great (some might say essential) adjunct to martial arts training.

The only thing to look out for is overtraining. If you don't give your body enough rest between exercise sessions, you break yourself down instead of build yourself up. As you begin your weight training, listen to your body. It will tell you if this is happening.

Ditto. I think you will find that weight lifting will help your TSD a lot.

Remember weight lifting also helps stretch and shape the muscles. Plus we ladies don't tend to grow big muscles as it is.

 

[Lynne]

Thank you Bushido and Carol.

Good! I was thinking about my lack of upper body strength. I have pretty strong legs, not that they can't be 10X stronger. But my upper body strength stinks.

Anyway, overall conditioning. Got it. I'ts been a couple of years since I lifted and I'd forgotten how weight training stretches the muscles and makes you more flexible. Anything to help with MA

 

[exile]

Nope. Weight training is a great (some might say essential) adjunct to martial arts training.

The only thing to look out for is overtraining. If you don't give your body enough rest between exercise sessions, you break yourself down instead of build yourself up. As you begin your weight training, listen to your body. It will tell you if this is happening.

100% agreement here, BMAS. The thing is, if you do a very high-intensity weight training exercise that involves significantly more work within the same time frame as your previous workout, you're going to experience what's called Delayed-Onset Muscle Soreness, a very odd effect where you feel fine for the first 12-24 hours after the work out, and start feeling a little sore in the muscle groups (the insertion tendons, actually) that you worked. The peak in my experience is about 40 hours after the workout; there have been times I could hardly stand sneezing because of the soreness. The thing is, the effect really is one of soreness, not acute pain—you won't feel the latter unless you've done something really extreme, like torn a muscle or tendon. So normal soreness, even extreme soreness, is fine, just an indicator that you've imposed a significant overload on the muscle group.

The soreness normally dissipates completely by around 60 hours after the workout. Something that lasts any longer... that's going to be very anomalous and should be followed up on with your MD.

As BMAS says, weight training is crucial for strength development, and strength is important both on its own and also for balance. Contrary to gym lore, a stronger muscle is as a rule a faster muscle. To strenthen a muscle, you first have to go through a period in your lifting where you condition synchronous firing of the neural units that activate the muscle: tandem firing is essential to generate the full strength that the muscle group can exert, and it takes a bit of encouragement to do this, so the first phase of training a new muscle group is to do that. But by the time you've added significant strength to that muscle, you've also trained the neural group to fire together right off the mark—which translates into quicker activation for the muscle. The increase in muscle bulk doesn't slow you down in the least, because both local capillary multiplication (hence blood flow) and neuromuscular activation more than keep pace with the size increase. I'm much quicker now than I was before I started weight training around 12 years ago, and that's been invaluable for my TKD training.

 

[Blotan Hunka]

While overtraining is not a myth. The bodies ability to adapt is not infinite and there is a point where stress from training will lead to illness, injury, loss of performance. Only rest or less intense training will give relief.

BUT many people use "overtraining" to mean "Im tired and sore and workingout hurts so Im going to lay off today so I dont get overtrained." If you are working out properly, your body should become capable of more work, so if you limit your output out of fear of "overtraining" you will stall out.

I rarely think overtraining is what causes people to fail to progress towards their goal so in that sense it is a myth.

Most people that are overtraining are truly overtraining but the real reason is actually that they are undereating/eating poorly or using a stupid program unsuited for them or living a lifestyle that simply causes too much stress.

In this case training less will in no way cause them to get closer to their goals even though they are "overtraining". The weak link in their progress is actually something else.

 

[JBrainard]

I can only take Tang Soo Do classes twice a week (contract). So, I will be going on Tuesdays and Saturdays.

I plan on practicing my forms, kicks, etc., at home on other days of the week.

I'm assuming that this is a pretty good aerobic workout, yes?

While overtraining is not a myth. The bodies ability to adapt is not infinite and there is a point where stress from training will lead to illness, injury, loss of performance.

Something I just learned (and anyone who knows more about aerobic workouts, please correct me) is that if your aerobic workout pushes you too far past your target hart rate you start burning muscle, which, of course, would be counter productive to strength training.

 

[Brian R. VanCise]

Nope. Weight training is a great (some might say essential) adjunct to martial arts training.

The only thing to look out for is overtraining. If you don't give your body enough rest between exercise sessions, you break yourself down instead of build yourself up. As you begin your weight training, listen to your body. It will tell you if this is happening.

Very sound advice. Weight training and strength along with sound cardiovascular training will only help your Tang Soo Do! Good luck!

 

[Eternal Beginner]

While overtraining is not a myth. The bodies ability to adapt is not infinite and there is a point where stress from training will lead to illness, injury, loss of performance. Only rest or less intense training will give relief.

BUT many people use "overtraining" to mean "Im tired and sore and workingout hurts so Im going to lay off today so I dont get overtrained." If you are working out properly, your body should become capable of more work, so if you limit your output out of fear of "overtraining" you will stall out.

I rarely think overtraining is what causes people to fail to progress towards their goal so in that sense it is a myth.

Most people that are overtraining are truly overtraining but the real reason is actually that they are undereating/eating poorly or using a stupid program unsuited for them or living a lifestyle that simply causes too much stress.

In this case training less will in no way cause them to get closer to their goals even though they are "overtraining". The weak link in their progress is actually something else.

Very well said! What I thought was "overtraining" was actually just "bad training". I work far harder now than I have in my entire life and have absolutely zero symptoms of overtraining.

I credit this to wise martial arts coaches, highly educated strength and conditioning coach and a great diet. Where I used to feel sore, tired, achy, dizzy and exhausted now I am energized and strong.

With the right guidance (in my case an excellent strength and conditioning coach) you can train a huge amount and still be able to recover and make gains without ever losing time or motivation to "overtraining".

More on topic to the orginal post, weight-training will be highly beneficial to your Martial Arts training. Find a good personal trainer who understands your requirements and you will be amazed at the difference it makes. Not to mention the side benefits to women of weigh-bearing exercise and it's effect on osteoperosis, and the fact that muscle burns more energy at rest so it aids in weight loss moreso than many other exercises.

 

[Carol]

Something I just learned (and anyone who knows more about aerobic workouts, please correct me) is that if your aerobic workout pushes you too far past your target hart rate you start burning muscle, which, of course, would be counter productive to strength training.

Actually no. Pushing your cardio workout too far past your target heart range means you redline your heart...which can get dangerous. Your heart does have a 'max' rate that it can go.



The lower section of the heart rate range (60-80% of max) is the aerobic zone (aerobic = with oxygen). It takes about 20 minutes of exercise in this zone for the body to start buring fat. A 30 minute cardio excercise is 20 minutes of getting to the point where the body can burn fat, then 10 minutes of burning fat.



Body fat is a complex molecule that has an inner layer of Carbon and Oxygen and an outer layer of Hydrogen. The fat burning process starts by burning off the outer layer of Hydrogen. (H2).

Oxygen (O2) is required for any kind of combustion, including the burning of fat.

2 H2 + O2 = 2 H20. Water. This is why water is very important for those trying to lose weight.

Excercise in this range usually feels good. An unscientific way to judge if you are in range is the "talk test." Can you hold a conversation while you are excercising at that range? If yes, you are still in the aerobic zone of exercise. If no, you have gone up to anaerobic zone of excercise.



80-90% of your max heart rate is the anaerobic zone. (Anaerobic = without oxygen).

So...since now the process has no more oxygen, whatever gets combusted must have its own oxygen supply. What gets burned is glycogen, a sugar fuel in the muscle tissue.

[SIZE=-1]So...muscles have this complex polymer called Glycogen C24H42O21. Since there is no water involved the body's phosphates break off some of the oxygen molecues and start the combustion process.

At some point in this process...the body reaches an anabolic threshold. (anabolic - muscle building). This is when you feel your heart rate climb and you start breathing hard.

Glycogen gets burned and breaks apart in to amino acids...which strengthen the muscle tissue.

Burn, baby, burn.

And...burn it does, in more ways than one...because the result is...

C3H6O3

Lactic Acid. Ouch!

For folks that can deal with the lactic acid burn...this is what is making your muscles stronger, the burning of the glycogen in to amino acid.

The body can sustain a good amount of activity at the anabolic threshold.

However, if the excercise stays constant, the body will reach a point where it runs out of glycogen. It is at this point where the process becomes catabolic and muscle tissue is burned.

The amount of glycogen burned is going to vary by activity. Weightlifting burns up more glycogen faster than jogging does. This is why folks that belong to a gym should do weights before cardio....the muscles still have their full amount of glycogen in them.

Above 90% heart rate is your hearts redline zone.

Danger Will Robinson.

Short training can improve the condition of some of the slow twitch muscles...don't exercise this hard unless you really know what you're doing. Plus lactic acid hasn't gone away....ouch!

That's the excercise zones.

The other element to glycogen levels is diet. Lean protein, lots of veggies, avoiding junk...

I hope that wasn't too nerdy.




[/SIZE]

 

[stickarts]

I have found weight training to benefit lots of sports and activities that I have done such as swimming, baseball, and martial arts.
If you do not already have experience with weight training, make sure you get some direction from someone qualified to put together a routine that fits your goals and I think you will benefit from it.

 

[Blotan Hunka]

Cant say enough about this program...if you can hack it.

http://www.crossfit.com/

I was a hurting unit when I started, but man the difference in fitness level (and Im a regular lifter/runner) is amazing.
To reach the "standard" is rough, but the workouts are "scaleable" in terms of weight/repititions/exercise to fit almost any fitness level. But you have to push yourself and push hard to really see the difference.

 

[JBrainard]

[SIZE=-1]I hope that wasn't too nerdy.[/SIZE]

LOTS of good information. I didn't think it was nerdy, I was actually wondering if I just got "schooled."

 

[Carol]

LOTS of good information. I didn't think it was nerdy, I was actually wondering if I just got "schooled."

Not in a bad way

 

[chinto01]

I was under the old myth that weight training would hinder my martial arts. Well I am getting older and started to put on a few extra pounds in the mid-section. As of Feb. of this year I started at a local gym doing alot of cardio and mixing in the weights every other day. I have noticed a huge difference that my kara-te has actually gotten better. Some of the moves I once had problems with in kata have seemed to disappear just by dropping a few pounds. The one thing I will stress is stretching after and before. You do not want to loose your flexbility. Just a side note that the masters of old did not have the weight lifting equipment that we have but the did have ways of strengthening. You should check it out.

In the spirit of bushido!

Rob

 

[Carol]

I was under the old myth that weight training would hinder my martial arts. Well I am getting older and started to put on a few extra pounds in the mid-section. As of Feb. of this year I started at a local gym doing alot of cardio and mixing in the weights every other day. I have noticed a huge difference that my kara-te has actually gotten better. Some of the moves I once had problems with in kata have seemed to disappear just by dropping a few pounds. The one thing I will stress is stretching after and before. You do not want to loose your flexbility. Just a side note that the masters of old did not have the weight lifting equipment that we have but the did have ways of strengthening. You should check it out.

In the spirit of bushido!

Rob

Absolutely. Strengthening occurs when the body works under a load. Working under a load could be walking, walking up a hill, jogging, carrying something, kicking something, lifting something...et cetera. The old masters didn't have weights but there are stories of swordsmen building arm strength by training with heavy hunks of wood. In times before modern technology, a person also expended more energy with the challenges of daily life. Weightlifting just offers a more concentrated, efficient, and in some ways safer way of building up strength.

Something that I should have added to what I wrote...

Aerobic or anaerobic exercise is simply burning fuel to feed the muscles that are being worked. Glycogen is burned in muscle tissue, as is fat.

Because fat is burned in muscle tissue, when you strengthen your muscles even a smaller amount, you are giving your body more fat-burning capability. One of the reasons why we gain weight as we go forward in life is that we tend to lose muscle mass with time and age. Maintaining and improving muscle tissue also maintains and improves one's metabolism of fat.

Underneath muscles is bone...our bones also start to lose density, partly due to age and partly due to the way the body stops making calcium in early adulthood.

An additional benefit to strength training is that it not only strengthens the muscles, it also strengthens and densifies the bones underneath. Eternal Beginner gightly mentions how this help reduce one's risk for osteoporosis, it also benefits our training. A major bone-breaking injury is not that common in martial arts but many MAists (myself included) have broken a toe at some time or another. Reducing the chance of having another broken toe is OK with me.

 

[chinto01]

I can tell all of you that hojoundo (sp) is alive and well on Okinawa with young and old karateka alike. The last night of my trip in 2004 while staying with my Sensei who was in his early 80's then did a demonstration for us that was OUTSTANDING!!! Weights that we had used to hold a door open during a typhoon he lifted like they were tinker toys.

In the spirit of bushido!

Rob

 

[CityChicken]

I can only take Tang Soo Do classes twice a week (contract). So, I will be going on Tuesdays and Saturdays.

I plan on practicing my forms, kicks, etc., at home on other days of the week.

I have free weights at home. I was thinking about lifting but I know I will be sore from TSD.

Do you think lifting on alternate days would be counterproductive to TSD???

What is your objective in weight training? Do you want to bulk up, tone, lower body fat, other? My advice with weight training is to have a plan and then monitor your progress. I have done weight training with the objective of building more muscle and reducing body fat % while also practicing TSD twice+ a week. It has worked well and been complimentary. Good luck.

 

[Lynne]

What is your objective in weight training? Do you want to bulk up, tone, lower body fat, other? My advice with weight training is to have a plan and then monitor your progress. I have done weight training with the objective of building more muscle and reducing body fat % while also practicing TSD twice+ a week. It has worked well and been complimentary. Good luck.

Hey CityChicken,

My objectives are to: improve my general conditioning by increasing physical strength (building more muscle) and increasing flexibility; also, I know if I'm stronger there's less chance of injuries; definitely lose body fat.

I'm glad the combination has worked for you.

It has been awhile since I trained, so I'll probably do full body workouts for a few weeks. (I have free weights at home.)

 

[chinto01]

Lynne good luck in your endeavor. The hard work will be worth the payoff!

In the spirit of bushido!

Rob