Is this forum a hotbed of WC heresy?

[wingerjim]

I've noticed a disturbing trend among the long time posters on this WC forum. Many seem to be "on the outs" with their present or former sifus. We seem to have a lot of free-thinkers here, who after a training short, or perhaps, quite a long time under a traditional sifu, have gone on to train with other WC groups or on their own.

The students dedicated to a single sifu and his system don't seem to hang around here that long --except for the occasional "true-believer" who is out to convert others to their way of thinking. I guess if you feel that your sifu has all the answers, there isn't as much to discuss ...especially with folks from other branches and systems.

Another thing ...if you are still under the tutelage of a traditional sifu, he might not approve of you hanging out and sharing or debating his teaching. Most traditional sifus I've run into prefer that their students don't talk too much with outsiders.

So, that leaves us with fewer "devotees" and a lot more "seekers". I know that describes me. I do belong to a VT assn. -- but I live far from the HQ and I don't think they know how much I post here. They have their own little organization forum and would like me to post there, but I don't. Except regarding our Escrima curriculum since I'm in charge of that. Otherwise, I think my lines of inquiry might ruffle some feathers. So here I am. How about the rest of you?

I am not sure if this is disturbing or just being a North American where we are often expecting to be quickly gratified. So I am not sure if this is a new trend or with everything at our fingertips we are growing more quickly satisfied as a general statement. My teacher teaches a few different arts and most other students like to switch from one to the next to the next. In general outside of martial arts I too loose focus and switch from one thing to another, but since I started formal training after 40 years old, I made up my mind to stay firm to one art and try to excel in this one, while my fellow students are mostly younger and have time on their side.

 

[KPM]

Nothing wrong with being a seeker. What's really 'disturbing' is when a certain seeker spends little to no actual time training with a certain Sifu in a particular lineage, moves on to something different, and then turns around and calls themselves an instructor in that lineage.

I missed this before, but it seems now that this is a reference to me? Just who the heck are you and what is your beef???

 

[Jsunlx]

I missed this before, but it seems now that this is a reference to me? Just who the heck are you and what is your beef???

I travel to Boston to study Pin Sun. When I asked who you were and if you were an Instructor I was told you only had 2 or 3 classes with Jim. There are very few legit Pin Sun instructors so I'm curious as to your actual background. How long did you study the art with your instructors?

 

[Jsunlx]

I missed this before, but it seems now that this is a reference to me? Just who the heck are you and what is your beef???

And why does it matter who I am? If you're an instructor, why not answer questions about your claimed qualifications?

 

[KPM]

And why does it matter who I am? If you're an instructor, why not answer questions about your claimed qualifications?

Because there are too many BS artists out there just looking for something to tear down and criticize. You now strike me as one of those. So forgive me if I tell you to kiss my backside if you can't be more polite. And you were told wrong.

If you want to ask information of someone the polite thing to do is introduce yourself, give your own background and state why you are asking for the information. You have gone about it all wrong, which suggests to me that you are not someone I would want to share with.

So let me ask you a question......why would you not see me as a Pin Sun brother and ally rather than acting like a complete douche???

 

[Steve]

I think this is just old cultural thinking for the most part. That and the endless WC debates of "who is right and who is wrong" when it comes to doing "real wing chun." From a business point of view I can see that Sifu's would rather have paying students to learn what you know, instead of that information being given away for free. The perspective of "Why take a class if someone is going to give out the information for free?" can kill new student enrollment. It doesn't matter how great the school is, when people start thinking like this then the chance of them paying is almost zero.

The last time I actually purchased music was maybe 1995 because of the same mentality.

Wait... how are you getting music for free? I mean, presuming you aren't suggesting you have been hoisting the Jolly Roger and sailing to tortuga on the Black Pearl.

Are you really suggesting that people will not pay for what they can steal? I must be missing the point.

 

[Jsunlx]

Because there are too many BS artists out there just looking for something to tear down and criticize. You now strike me as one of those. So forgive me if I tell you to kiss my backside if you can't be more polite. And you were told wrong.

If you want to ask information of someone the polite thing to do is introduce yourself, give your own background and state why you are asking for the information. You have gone about it all wrong, which suggests to me that you are not someone I would want to share with.

So let me ask you a question......why would you not see me as a Pin Sun brother and ally rather than acting like a complete douche???

KPM, You can call me any name you want as a way to try to avoid answering my questions. I think we know why! If people found out your background and experience with Pin Sun was only a few weekends it wouldn't look good now would it? Getting exposed must be embarrassing since you have been misrepresenting yourself and you want me to greet you with brotherly love?? That's rich!

 

[Gerry Seymour]

And why does it matter who I am? If you're an instructor, why not answer questions about your claimed qualifications?

Because your questions don't come across as questions, but as attacks bearing the presumption of some guilt.

 

[Gerry Seymour]

KPM, You can call me any name you want as a way to try to avoid answering my questions. I think we know why! If people found out your background and experience with Pin Sun was only a few weekends it wouldn't look good now would it? Getting exposed must be embarrassing since you have been misrepresenting yourself and you want me to greet you with brotherly love?? That's rich!

You could do with some manners, neighbor.

 

[JowGaWolf]

Wait... how are you getting music for free? I mean, presuming you aren't suggesting you have been hoisting the Jolly Roger and sailing to tortuga on the Black Pearl.

Are you really suggesting that people will not pay for what they can steal? I must be missing the point.

People who steal weren't going to pay for it anyway. I'll put it like this. If you ever had a Friday or Saturday night date with this machine as a teen, then you already know the answer to your question.

 

[anerlich]

KPM, If people found out your background and experience with Pin Sun was only a few weekends it wouldn't look good now would it?

I doubt anyone else cares.

An unkind person might say Jim Roselando lost nearly all of whatever credibility he had when he jumped on Hendrik Santo's "flex/flow" (or whatever it was called) bandwagon to nowhere. And that taking a nasty, but too cowardly to identify themselves, piece of work like yourself on as a student has damaged it still further.

I don't really have any feelings about JR either way, or interest in him his students, or Pin Sun. Just illustrating how acting like a demanding immature d*ck on the forum the way you are can really p*ss other people off. and achieve nothing.

 

[Dylan9d]

KPM, You can call me any name you want as a way to try to avoid answering my questions. I think we know why! If people found out your background and experience with Pin Sun was only a few weekends it wouldn't look good now would it? Getting exposed must be embarrassing since you have been misrepresenting yourself and you want me to greet you with brotherly love?? That's rich!

Don't know if calling someone out like this is allowed.

Apart from that, what KPM says, give your background if you are so "credible"......

 

[Juany118]

I've noticed a disturbing trend among the long time posters on this WC forum. Many seem to be "on the outs" with their present or former sifus. We seem to have a lot of free-thinkers here, who after a training short, or perhaps, quite a long time under a traditional sifu, have gone on to train with other WC groups or on their own.

The students dedicated to a single sifu and his system don't seem to hang around here that long --except for the occasional "true-believer" who is out to convert others to their way of thinking. I guess if you feel that your sifu has all the answers, there isn't as much to discuss ...especially with folks from other branches and systems.

Another thing ...if you are still under the tutelage of a traditional sifu, he might not approve of you hanging out and sharing or debating his teaching. Most traditional sifus I've run into prefer that their students don't talk too much with outsiders.

So, that leaves us with fewer "devotees" and a lot more "seekers". I know that describes me. I do belong to a VT assn. -- but I live far from the HQ and I don't think they know how much I post here. They have their own little organization forum and would like me to post there, but I don't. Except regarding our Escrima curriculum since I'm in charge of that. Otherwise, I think my lines of inquiry might ruffle some feathers. So here I am. How about the rest of you?

I think I prefer the title "free thinker" over heretic .
That said I think it is largely the nature of the venue. As an "open forum" inviting people from multiple lineages so you aren't going to find many "purists" around. If you do you have someone that remains largely silent unless there is something mentioned that is specifically relevant to their school of thought or they are there to proselytise (aka troll).

 

[KPM]

KPM, You can call me any name you want as a way to try to avoid answering my questions. I think we know why! If people found out your background and experience with Pin Sun was only a few weekends it wouldn't look good now would it? Getting exposed must be embarrassing since you have been misrepresenting yourself and you want me to greet you with brotherly love?? That's rich!

You are welcome to put out a little effort in going back and reading what I have posted in this forum about Pin Sun in the past. Then you can decide for yourself whether you think I know what I'm talking about. But I don't owe you anything...including answers to rude questions. In fact...as it shakes out from a "traditional gung fu" perspective, I am very likely your Si Hing and you have behaved very rudely in that context. But at the end of the day, I was awarded an "instructor's certificate" directly from Henry Mui. Can you say the same???

 

[geezer]

OK, thanks to Jsunix we now know that Keith learned all the stuff he's shared over the years in two or three lessons. If this is true, imagine what he would know if he learned for a month!

I tell ya what. He must be like the fastest learner in the world. Maybe I should just hang it up.



Or ...is it just possible that this guy "Jsunix" has a little bit of ...an agenda here?

 

[Xue Sheng]

Or ...is it just possible that this guy "Jsunix" has a little bit of ...an agenda here?

Well...you did use the word "heresy" in the title

 

[geezer]

Actually, it would be kinda fun to have a thread where we discuss a little of our personal WC/WT/VT histories. Not a resume, or bragging rights. More like discussing who and what has influenced each of us in our ongoing martial arts odyssey. Have to be selective though, since some of you guys have been in this since Ogg first picked up a club to smack Ugg.

 

[geezer]

Well...you did use the word "heresy" in the title

...but I didn't expect the bloody Spanish Inquisition!!!

 

[jks9199]

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[ShortBridge]

...Have to be selective though, since some of you guys have been in this since Ogg first picked up a club to smack Ugg.

Listen, I don't want to stir something up, but can we agree that UGG got what he had coming? I mean...That simmered for a long time before it boiled over, am I right?

JSUNLX, don't know who you are, don't care who you are, but we know Keith around here.