Is the US becoming a "rogue state"?

[rmcrobertson]

Hey, Mr. Skerry--you should really be a lot more worried about the black helicopters, and the buildup of Soviet military vehicles in Michigan coupled with the Chinese takeover of the Port of Long Beach.

Sheesh, it's like you never even SAW "Red Dawn," or considered the rise of the Antichrist Kofi Annan through the Satan-dominated UN.

Yours in the fight against floridation, UNICEF, and sex ed,
R.M. Robertson

 

[RandomPhantom700]

Uhhh, right. :bs1:

 

[Feisty Mouse]

Hi Feisty Mouse,

"no evidence linking Bin Laden to Saddam"?? Huh??? What is wrong with you?

President George W. Bush, the CIA, the NSA, the DIA, and most other Americans are extremely aware of former President Bill Clinton's defense secretary Bill Cohen's written and documented letter of Saddam Hussein to Bin Laden that "Al-quida will work cooperatively with the government of Iraq" source WASHINGTON POST 1998 article by Roland Scarborough.

"Torturing and raping prisoners is within the bounds of decency and law?" of course not Feisty Mouse, that is why we did not do that. There is no evidence of torture or rape (except of Jessica Lynch, who was tortured and ganged raped at the hands of Iraqi soldiers!).
There is no evidence of US torture and rape! Show me the evidence, cite your sources, where is you proof for such a remarkable statement? Pantys on a mans face is not torture, nudity is not torture, and a black sack over a man's head is not torture - so show me your proof!

"Sedition? I call it free speech..." and I was barred from Martialtalk.com for exercising my 'right' to free speech, but when screaming liberals, like fat slob Michael Moore, blatantly break the law - sedition - its free speech? HUH?

I want some precise and educational answers from you Feisty Mouse! Right Now!

"Patrick", I think you need to show a little bit more respect if you want to have an intelligent dialogue. If you are just interested in trolling, then by all means, yell and scream. (I find it funny that you make demands on me, but would not answer questions directed at you in other threads.)

Others here have already dealt with you and your "free speech" rights. Michael Moore has not broken the law, and furthermore, he does not post on this private forum. You are allowed to say anything publicly is you have evidence - if it is not libel or slander. You seem to wave "sedition" and "terrorism" around a lot as words almost as heinous to you as "the l-word". If you could use them intelligently, that would be something.

US soldiers have been documented torturing Iraqi prisoners. To deny knowledge of that is to truly, willfully stick your head in the sand. Find your own sources - your tactic is to repeat right-wing facist rantings, and then demand that others (as others have already done here in this thread) provide evidence.

 

[Nightingale]

MT MOD NOTE:

Please keep the discussion polite and respectful. The moderation team understands that these are sensitive issues, but please take care to word your responses in a way that is respectful to other thread participants.

Thank you

-Nightingale-
MT MODERATOR

 

[Patrick Skerry]

According to www.wikipedia.com , on this page.

Nice try, though.

Wikipedia? A questionable open source.

 

[Nightingale]

perhaps you could quote some alternate information from a source you consider more reputable?

 

[Patrick Skerry]

"Patrick", I think you need to show a little bit more respect if you want to have an intelligent dialogue. If you are just interested in trolling, then by all means, yell and scream. (I find it funny that you make demands on me, but would not answer questions directed at you in other threads.)

Others here have already dealt with you and your "free speech" rights. Michael Moore has not broken the law, and furthermore, he does not post on this private forum. You are allowed to say anything publicly is you have evidence - if it is not libel or slander. You seem to wave "sedition" and "terrorism" around a lot as words almost as heinous to you as "the l-word". If you could use them intelligently, that would be something.

US soldiers have been documented torturing Iraqi prisoners. To deny knowledge of that is to truly, willfully stick your head in the sand. Find your own sources - your tactic is to repeat right-wing facist rantings, and then demand that others (as others have already done here in this thread) provide evidence.

Your condescending and patronizing attitude is truly annoying. I have not seen any 'documented evidence' of any torture by US soldiers or citizens against captured terrorists - that is the truth! What I have seen are pictures of naked men (not torture), men wearing women's panties (not torture) or a man with a hood over his head with wires tied to his wrist, and since no electricity was running through those wires, or anything else, that was not torture. The onus probandi is on you to prove there was torture, not merely to repeat unsubstantiated allegations by the liberal media!

Private England is going to a court martial, and what is her defense? She was taught methods of interogation by the U.S. Army and she applied those methods, she tortured no one! She used the same methods on bloody terrorists that are used in U.S. prisons for discipline and unruly prisoner control, no torture involved. So it appears you have a loose definition of torture as well as racism and fascism.

As far as respect goes, I haven't been the greatest recipient of respect since I began contributing to martialtalk.com, and I always return the favor - you disrespect me, I disrespect you! But in this Orwellian madhouse that means punishing the victim with a weeks suspension!

So go scold someone else.

 

[Feisty Mouse]

No-one else seems to need scolding around these parts.... :idunno:

"The liberal media" is a joke. That has been discussed in other threads.

http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/pdf/icrc_iraq.pdf

Enjoy yourself.

But in this Orwellian madhouse that means punishing the victim with a weeks suspension!

Why keep contributing if you truly believe this is a madhouse?

 

[Rich Parsons]

Your condescending and patronizing attitude is truly annoying. I have not seen any 'documented evidence' of any torture by US soldiers or citizens against captured terrorists - that is the truth! What I have seen are pictures of naked men (not torture), men wearing women's panties (not torture) or a man with a hood over his head with wires tied to his wrist, and since no electricity was running through those wires, or anything else, that was not torture. The onus probandi is on you to prove there was torture, not merely to repeat unsubstantiated allegations by the liberal media!

Private England is going to a court martial, and what is her defense? She was taught methods of interogation by the U.S. Army and she applied those methods, she tortured no one! She used the same methods on bloody terrorists that are used in U.S. prisons for discipline and unruly prisoner control, no torture involved. So it appears you have a loose definition of torture as well as racism and fascism.

As far as respect goes, I haven't been the greatest recipient of respect since I began contributing to martialtalk.com, and I always return the favor - you disrespect me, I disrespect you! But in this Orwellian madhouse that means punishing the victim with a weeks suspension!

So go scold someone else.

Mr Skerry,

I would have to disagree about torture. Someone of a very religous mind, who has been striped naked in front of a woman or women, can be torture. Torture is in the mind as well as in the body.

As to methods of interrogation, I would think this is not standard practice, yet I could be wrong, not knowing her personal training history.

As to respect, if you have had problems, from people, then you may use the report to moderator function to report a post. Do not reply and do not bait them. Just let them post and you continue to be on topic, and maybe respect will be given in your mind. I do not know, what happened previously, nor what you consider disrespectful.

Just my thoughts and some information.

:asian:

 

[PeachMonkey]

I have not seen any 'documented evidence' of any torture by US soldiers or citizens against captured terrorists - that is the truth!

Try reading the ICRC report Feisty posted. I also recommend you check out this post:

http://www.martialtalk.com/forum/showthread.php?p=243089&highlight=torture#post243089

...which discusses the various legal bases for why the acts committed at Abu Ghraib (as well as Guantanamo Bay and other locales) qualify as torture, and why such acts are illegal.

So it appears you have a loose definition of torture as well as racism and fascism.

Could you please define fascism for us, since you use the term so often? Thanks.

But in this Orwellian madhouse that means punishing the victim with a weeks suspension!

Which of Orwell's works have you actually read? Thanks.h

 

[PeachMonkey]

Why keep contributing if you truly believe this is a madhouse?

Does the word "troll" ring any bells, Miss Mouse?

 

[rmcrobertson]

Hey, I've got a hypothetical. Why don't we grab Mr. Skerry off the street, tape his hands and feet up, pull a bag over his head, hold him incommunicado for, say a year, respond to questions about his whereabouts by saying that Mr. Skerry, who we may or may not be holding, isn't subject to the rules of the Geneva Convention because he might be an "enemy combatant," deprive him of sleep, tie his hand and feet together and leave him squatting for, say twelve hours, strip him naked and beat him from time to time, threaten him with a dog or two, pose him with other guys, beat him a little more, and then we can try this conversation about why torturing helpless prisoners is wrong again.

What you are advocating, sir, is deeply and fundamentally antithetical to the basic principles of law and justice that I was taught this country stands for, and I deeply resent your advocacy of it. Why don't you go live in some country like Iran or North Korea, where they do this kind of crap all the time, since you find basic American values so offensive?

 

[Nightingale]

MT MOD NOTE:

Thread locked pending admin review.

-Nightingale-
MT MODERATOR

 

[Bob Hubbard]

Admin Note
We have had 2 account suspensions as a result of exchanges between parties involved in this thread, and others within the Study.

To avoid anyone else from 'winning a vacation', I would strongly advise that any 'little digs', 'last words', or 'parting shots' be dropped, and the thread return to it's original discussion, that being the question of "Is the US is becoming a Rogue State?"

I have reopened this thread so that the main topic can be discussed.
Please focus on that.

Thank you,
Bob Hubbard
Technical Administrator.

 

[Rich Parsons]

Personal Opinion Follows:

I think that the U.S.A. is becoming and has the potential of becoming a Rogue State.

We are drawing more and more lines in the sand internally and externaly to our borders based upon Religion and knee jerk reactions of half information. Half information - Where someone here half or has half the information, with a twist from the presentor.

The media does not care about the truth, they care about ratings. What will it take to get more people to watch our channel?

People here what they want, they hang out with people who have similar views and they reinforce each other. When they meet in person or on the internet, they get into arguements and do not approach the situation with an open mind, to be able to possible learn something.

People hiding behind the rules, of a polite society, to yell at others to get their point of view across. Like if they yell the loudest, then they are the most right.

End Personal Opinion

 

[Flatlander]

If in fact the US is becoming a rogue state, I don't think that it's irreversible. I believe that following through with the current international activities to see them through completion would go a long way to demonstrating the will to strengthen the international community.

 

[bignick]

Like if they yell the loudest, then they are the most right.

a bit of a "might makes right" attitude...in another thread the daily show came up and how it's viewers were more educated...well...i was watching last night and they had archbishop desmond tutu...

he had some interesting things to say....he said he feels that most people love america the country but don't like or understand how we let things like the situation in iraq happen...

he said that the people have an unbelievable capacity for compassion and aid and caring...and he hopes that we show the rest of the world that side again...

 

[qizmoduis]

No-one else seems to need scolding around these parts.... :idunno:

"The liberal media" is a joke. That has been discussed in other threads.

http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/pdf/icrc_iraq.pdf

Enjoy yourself.


Why keep contributing if you truly believe this is a madhouse?

He should stop throwing around words like "Orwellian", "fascist", and "sedition" until he actually understands what they mean.

 

[Bob Hubbard]

Admin Note
We have had 2 account suspensions as a result of exchanges between parties involved in this thread, and others within the Study.

To avoid anyone else from 'winning a vacation', I would strongly advise that any 'little digs', 'last words', or 'parting shots' be dropped, and the thread return to it's original discussion, that being the question of "Is the US is becoming a Rogue State?"

I have reopened this thread so that the main topic can be discussed.
Please focus on that.

Thank you,
Bob Hubbard
Technical Administrator.

 

[rmcrobertson]

It's actually not all that difficult to find news that's balanced and fair, and that reports on this country and the world in ways that fairly represent several sides to the issue.

Listen to NPR; listen to the BBC World Programme. They're on the radio every day; "All Things Considered," twice a day for hours, and they play the BBC on public stations across the country late at night. hell, you can even get Canada's late-night hour of news.

Then take a peek at "Nightly Business Report," and "Wall Street Journal," once in a while; get "The New York Times," sent to your e-mail address every morning. Sometimes, look at British journals like, "The Economist," or American ones like "The Nation," and "National Review," and "Atlantic Monthly," and "US News and World Report." Read your local paper; peek at "Time," and "Newsweek."

It's not that hard. Problem is, some folks are simply lazy--intellectually as well as physically. They don't want to do the reading, or even the listening, so they throw around words like, "liberal bias," and head straight for Rush or Savage or "USA Today." "Liberal bias," is just an excuse, because simply listening to "All Things Considered," will give you a reasonably-decent overview of what's up, without all the posturing and shouting.

If you're reading this and you're still thinking, "liberal bias," let's ask this: have you TRIED the material I just listed? Hell, it's not even all liberal by any stretch of the imagination (well, unless you're in the tinfoil-hat-and-protect our-precious-bodily-fluids brigade), and it will equip you to understand what's going on in the world.

Is it a complete list? Nope. is it slanted towards the Western world? Sure yep.

But if you try, you'll be able to find out why a lot of people are scared about where this country is going.

Then there's the new Philip Roth novel--the one where Lucky Lindy gets elected in 1940, and the country goes completely fascist...now there's a rogue state.