Is sparring very effective?

[Gerry Seymour]

i see your point but i would counter with the idea that sparring does not re create a street fight but scenario training does. and scenario training can include padded or un padded sparring like conditions that would replace sparring.

I agree that it doesn't. Scenario work creates an entirely different situation (and different uncertainties). The advantage of sparring is that it tests the most basic techniques and our ability to defend against someone who is skilled. Scenario training is usually not very good at the latter, since it constrains the "attacker".

 

[Bill Mattocks]

A friend of mine told me a sparring will help gain better skill. I have been hearing on both sides. I heard it is only good for MMA match and not for street fight, then I heard another way around.

Let's set some definitions. A 'fight' has no rules. A 'sparring match' does.

Given that, you can never replicate the conditions of a fight in a sparring match.

However, sparring can be useful. The things you can learn whilst sparring can be used for a real 'fight' as well.

In sparring, you can learn distancing, as well as developing speed and exploring your mastery of techniques. You learn better balance, you manage your wind, you get your stances down. You learn to move and to plan ahead. You learn to look for weaknesses or tells and exploit them.

You learn to take a punch, and even if thrown with light power and protective gear, you can develop an understanding that you can take some hits and keep moving, continue to be effective.

You can learn that some techniques, useful in point-sparring tournaments, are utterly useless for self-defense; as well as learning that a fight isn't over when you count coup. It's over when the aggressor stops fighting, either by choice or because they are incapacitated or you have left the area.

To train to defend yourself, you can:

1. Go get in actual fights. Many famous karatemen of the past did just this. Many died doing it. Great way to gain skill, great way to die.
2. Spar, either light or heavy, with or without protective gear. The harder you fight, the closer it comes to reality, but it can never be reality.
3. Kata.
4. Kihon.
5. ...

In other words, everything helps to develop actual self-defense capability. Some things are closer to the reality of a fight than others, but it doesn't make any of them bad. See them for what they are, use them as the tools they are. If you absolutely feel the need to pressure test your abilities, nothing much will suffice except actual fights, but you are risking your life if you choose to do that.

 

[Kababayan]

I think there is a lot of truth in the above quote, but I would change "absolutely nothing to prep you" to "may not accurately prep you", especially at higher rank. The timing, coordination, power, etc. may help you if assaulted, but may not prepare you for the adrenaline dump, fear, being surprised, etc. That being said, I have to acknowledge that there was a huge difference between my light or no contact Tang Soo Do sparring (at least where I trained) and my competitive kickboxing sparring. I'm a big proponent for scenario training.

 

[Buka]

As has been stated in other threads, the big right hand swing is probably the most common street attack. The first time one is actually hit by that big right hand swing can be a frightening and debilitating experience.

I do not believe it is in anyone's best interest to experience that for the first time in the street. Nor to block it, duck it, slip it, parry it - whatever. And while two man drills can address it, if you know it's coming in the drill - it's not the same.

 

[JowGaWolf]

i would disagree. i think you are making an assumption based on your own training and experience. this is a common problem. sparring is the best option for preparing for a street fight if that is the best tool you have at your disposal. for most martial arts schools sparring is the best tool based on that school or style's hierarchy of training methodology. (in laymens terms they dont know any better) but there are better methods out there, you just need to learn what they are and how to apply them.

I will say again sparring is really good for skill building like timing, coordination , power, things like that. but it does absolutely nothing to prep you for an actual assault. fighting skills are only a small part of the equation.

I'm basing my statements off how I see sparring. Sparring is what we do to train the application of techniques. For example. If a street fight is hand fighting, then sparring will allow you to train those techniques against a resisting and attacking opponent. Sparring not only trains the techniques that you'll use, but it helps to train the following in the context of fighting

• timing
• distance
• awareness
• defense
• offense
• cardio
• strategy
• movement
• endurance
• escapes
• avoidance
• pattern
• recognition
• posture recognition
• focus
• peripheral vision
• body movement (what punches and kicks look like when someone is about to do one)
• prepares the body and the mind for the stress that is common with fighting (like being scared and how to control the panic)
• it prepares the mind to better deal with the fear of being punched, kick, and thrown
• it helps the mind to prepare with the brutality of fighting if the students go at it fairly hard.
  
• it helps the student to better understand which techniques they can depend on and which techniques they still need to train before trying to use in a fight.
• it helps student get a realistic understanding of their abilities.
• it helps students better read positions of attack (the stances in which a person can attack from).
• it helps students to learn how to adjust on the fly when things aren't going their way.
• it helps students to learn control
• it helps students to be more accurate based on their capabilities and the movement of their opponent
• it teaches countering

but it does absolutely nothing to prep you for an actual assault. fighting skills are only a small part of the equation.

All of the stuff above prepares a person for actual assault better than not doing anything at all. I agree that fighting skills are only a part of the equation, but I'm only referring to the physical effort to defend one's self. Because the Op mentioned sparring and street fighting.

 

[CB Jones]

As has been stated in other threads, the big right hand swing is probably the most common street attack. The first time one is actually hit by that big right hand swing can be a frightening and debilitating experience.

I do not believe it is in anyone's best interest to experience that for the first time in the street. Nor to block it, duck it, slip it, parry it - whatever. And while two man drills can address it, if you know it's coming in the drill - it's not the same.

Absolutely.

The first day Boxing in the Academy is an eye opener for some people.

 

[Buka]

Absolutely.

The first day Boxing in the Academy is an eye opener for some people.

Eye closer, too. [sorry, couldn't resist]

 

[Flying Crane]

Sparring can be a useful tool.

There are other useful tools.

Sparring is not strictly necessary. Other training methods also do a fine job of developing relevant and necessary skills.

If you like sparring, train in a school that spars.

one's mileage may vary.

 

[KenpoMaster805]

Every martial arts school do sparring class sparring is verry effective because you will learn when to execute your moves like your punches kicks and any strike like backhand strike also in sparring you have to look an opening on your opponent body so i can kick him punch him or strike him if theres opening also keep your hands up and always focus on your opponent and also in sparring you can block there kick punch and strike and you can counter kick punch or strike and sparring is fun at the same time

 

[KenpoMaster805]

Every martial arts school do sparring class sparring is verry effective because you will learn when to execute your moves like your punches kicks and any strike like backhand strike also in sparring you have to look an opening on your opponent body so i can kick him punch him or strike him if theres opening also keep your hands up and always focus on your opponent and also in sparring you can block there kick punch and strike and you can counter kick punch or strike and sparring is fun at the same time

 

[wab25]

So, most of this thread has been about whether sparring is effective training or not. Most agree, that it is at least an important part of training.

I think though, that how you approach sparring has a huge effect on how effective it is.

I have been training danzan ryu jujitsu for about 20 years. I have rolled with dzr guys, bjj guys, judo guys, mma guys and a few wrestlers. (learned a lot from all of them) I recently started training in Shotokan karate. The distance, the stance, the techniques are totally different. We do a lot of sparring. Now, if I approach these sparring sessions from the view point of: I need to win... Then I take these guys down with a sweep or throw and submit or pound them on the ground. I win. But, I don't learn much. I already know I can throw guys, I can submit guys... especially when they don't train grappling arts. However, if I can swallow my pride, and try this karate style sparring at the new distance, with the new techniques, I lose the sparring sessions... but I learn things. Then, I practice those things and get better.

The sensei will show us new combinations, new set ups, different approaches... Some students, either try it once in sparring, get countered and go back to their winning stuff or they never try the new stuff at all. They want to win. Its the same thing as grappling non grapplers. (or punching non punchers)

I think that in order for sparring to be most effective, you need to try to do the things you are not good at, more than the things you are. That way you are expanding the number things you can be effective with against resistance. This is where the humility thing comes in. In training this way, you get beat by people who should not beat you. However, in return, you learn to apply techniques that you couldn't use before. At least, for me, this is what makes sparring most effective.

 

[JR 137]

So, most of this thread has been about whether sparring is effective training or not. Most agree, that it is at least an important part of training.

I think though, that how you approach sparring has a huge effect on how effective it is.

I have been training danzan ryu jujitsu for about 20 years. I have rolled with dzr guys, bjj guys, judo guys, mma guys and a few wrestlers. (learned a lot from all of them) I recently started training in Shotokan karate. The distance, the stance, the techniques are totally different. We do a lot of sparring. Now, if I approach these sparring sessions from the view point of: I need to win... Then I take these guys down with a sweep or throw and submit or pound them on the ground. I win. But, I don't learn much. I already know I can throw guys, I can submit guys... especially when they don't train grappling arts. However, if I can swallow my pride, and try this karate style sparring at the new distance, with the new techniques, I lose the sparring sessions... but I learn things. Then, I practice those things and get better.

The sensei will show us new combinations, new set ups, different approaches... Some students, either try it once in sparring, get countered and go back to their winning stuff or they never try the new stuff at all. They want to win. Its the same thing as grappling non grapplers. (or punching non punchers)

I think that in order for sparring to be most effective, you need to try to do the things you are not good at, more than the things you are. That way you are expanding the number things you can be effective with against resistance. This is where the humility thing comes in. In training this way, you get beat by people who should not beat you. However, in return, you learn to apply techniques that you couldn't use before. At least, for me, this is what makes sparring most effective.

A reknowned strength & conditioning coach, I think it was Mike Boyle, but I could be wrong, had some of the best advice I've seen...

The most important lift you can do is the one you hate doing the most. If you hate it, it's most likely because you're not good at it. We very rarely hate things we're very good at.

How does that relate to your post? I hate kicking, and especially hate rounds were my teachers set the "kicks only" rule. Why? I SUCK AT IT! If I want to get better, guess what I should be doing a lot more of.

Hopefully that motivates me to go back to my kicking only rounds on my punching bag, and my specific punch-kick-punch combo rounds. I don't transition very smoothly at all between punches to kicks, so I stupidly avoid practicing it for any length of time.

 

[FighterTwister]

So, most of this thread has been about whether sparring is effective training or not. Most agree, that it is at least an important part of training.

I think though, that how you approach sparring has a huge effect on how effective it is.

I have been training danzan ryu jujitsu for about 20 years. I have rolled with dzr guys, bjj guys, judo guys, mma guys and a few wrestlers. (learned a lot from all of them) I recently started training in Shotokan karate. The distance, the stance, the techniques are totally different. We do a lot of sparring. Now, if I approach these sparring sessions from the view point of: I need to win... Then I take these guys down with a sweep or throw and submit or pound them on the ground. I win. But, I don't learn much. I already know I can throw guys, I can submit guys... especially when they don't train grappling arts. However, if I can swallow my pride, and try this karate style sparring at the new distance, with the new techniques, I lose the sparring sessions... but I learn things. Then, I practice those things and get better.

The sensei will show us new combinations, new set ups, different approaches... Some students, either try it once in sparring, get countered and go back to their winning stuff or they never try the new stuff at all. They want to win. Its the same thing as grappling non grapplers. (or punching non punchers)

I think that in order for sparring to be most effective, you need to try to do the things you are not good at, more than the things you are. That way you are expanding the number things you can be effective with against resistance. This is where the humility thing comes in. In training this way, you get beat by people who should not beat you. However, in return, you learn to apply techniques that you couldn't use before. At least, for me, this is what makes sparring most effective.

Spot on!

But some martial arts are tricky or have limitations as you point out for example in BBJ they start in a stand up position but no stand up game thats usually the approach, usually.

Where in most other combat arts there is both stand up and ground game and with various other mixed issues.

But you are correct, sparring is always a two way learning process not just beating each other up senseless because you are sparring. But to be more precise you are perfecting techniques through application and most importantly training your senses whilst learning to read the fight.