Is it really the person not the style?

[DaveB]

I've said it before and I'll say it again, given that most styles overlap in terms of techniques and even strategy, and given that our individual genetics are not things we can manipulate, the factor that plays the biggest part in determining an effective fighter is training. And since training changes from school to school even within a given martial art style, it can only be concluded that training is not the same thing as a martial art style.

Ask yourself which ma can you categorically identify through listing their training activities?

Which ma owns sparring? How about pad work?

Yes TMA have certain activities and even occasionally philosophies of training that are passed on, but they are neither definitive (you can do karate without sandon kumite) nor exclusive (doing sanbon kumite doesn't stop you spending 90% of your time in free full contact sparring).

The idea that training and ma are one and the same is an easy mistake to make because we go to ma classes and spend 90 minutes training. But if that is the martial art, what is it we do when we fight?

And it's. not just ma-ists? Is the.dancer practicing knee bends in the mirror and doing pilates doing the same thing as when she is on stage performing a ballet? Of course not.

Training is an activity in its own right, distinct from applying the strategies and skills of which an ma is a collection. And it is training that determines effectiveness.

 

[Kenpoguy123]

My advice to you is to not worry about styles. Just worry about training in one. Do it course look for good instructors though. People here can help you identify a bad one from a good one.

I agree one point I always think is every style is obviously good and worthwhile otherwise there wouldn't be any schools of that style because everyone would know it doesn't work

 

[drop bear]

We had an example of this in the escape thread.

Escape thread.

Same escape one demonstrated by a guy who knows what he is doing and one demonstrated by a guy who doesn't. If you practice the version that is good. You will be a better martial artist.

This is aside from individual sise skill or natural ability. This is aside from the amount of time spent learning each technique

Stylistic differences matter.

 

[Hanzou]

I wouldnt necessarily say that some styles are more effective. Remember, Traditional TKD or what became later TKD, was used on the battlefield in Korea when Japan invaded.
.

Which would explain why the Japanese invasion was successful......

 

[Hanzou]

We had an example of this in the escape thread.

Escape thread.

Same escape one demonstrated by a guy who knows what he is doing and one demonstrated by a guy who doesn't. If you practice the version that is good. You will be a better martial artist.

This is aside from individual sise skill or natural ability. This is aside from the amount of time spent learning each technique

Stylistic differences matter.

Interesting how comparatively simple and efficient the more effective technique is. Makes you wonder why people would waste time with the less efficient technique that requires you to expend far more energy to achieve less desirable results.

 

[drop bear]

Interesting how comparatively simple and efficient the more effective technique is. Makes you wonder why people would waste time with the less efficient technique that requires you to expend far more energy to achieve less desirable results.

It is tricky to verify that what you are doing is correct.

Martial arts can be full of misconceptions. So the guy in the first video may believe that is the best version available. He may even validate that by sweeping everyone in the room.

 

[Ironbear24]

We had an example of this in the escape thread.

Escape thread.

Same escape one demonstrated by a guy who knows what he is doing and one demonstrated by a guy who doesn't. If you practice the version that is good. You will be a better martial artist.

This is aside from individual sise skill or natural ability. This is aside from the amount of time spent learning each technique

Stylistic differences matter.

This isn't a matter of style difference, it is a matter of individuals being better at it. Also the techniques aren't the same. I know it seems like splitting hairs but one controls the guy by the neck and the other by the torso.

 

[DaveB]

This isn't a matter of style difference, it is a matter of individuals being better at it. Also the techniques aren't the same. I know it seems like splitting hairs but one controls the guy by the neck and the other by the torso.

I would say it's a matter of specialisation. This is clearly a secondary skill set for the gentleman in the first video. Most of those I've seen in his position are quite clear that if you want to ring fight you should learn the skills from specialists in that area.

Whether he caveats his teaching or not, the big deal in most of these discussions is how he and his students apply resistance to this and their other techniques and methods. If they don't have access to a Gracie trained grappler to help them refine what they do but they fight their hardest and grow as a result, isn't that more realistic than expecting everyone who teaches to be a master of all things?

Surely we have to draw a line somewhere?

 

[drop bear]

This isn't a matter of style difference, it is a matter of individuals being better at it. Also the techniques aren't the same. I know it seems like splitting hairs but one controls the guy by the neck and the other by the torso.

Not really. The neck control example has issues that are just incorrect.
so regardless how good you get at that method. It is still the wrong method

 

[RTKDCMB]

Which would explain why the Japanese invasion was successful......

Because TKD wasn't invented yet.

 

[Hanzou]

Because TKD wasn't invented yet.

Because the Japanese hadn't taught them Shotokan yet.

 

[Buka]

Rimshot!

 

[RTKDCMB]

Because the Japanese hadn't taught them Shotokan yet.

And the Koreans changed and perfected it.

 

[DaveB]

And the Koreans changed and perfected it.

Ha! Now that's funny!